Melee hunter suggestions in 1 post

[Melhist2]

Isnt the only unit in WC3 with pet is melee(beast master) ? The rest ranged units dont even have pet.

[Patkittans]

How about a 1 point survival talent, maybe wedged in between Deterrence and Counterattack as a prerequisite. call it Watchful Eye or Watchful Mark, something along those lines.

It'd be a mark, similar to Hunter's Mark, castable on a friendly target. Any time the friendly target dodges or parries, the hunter's on dodge/parry effects trigger, respectively. Only one mark can be active at a time.

It'd allow for pet synergy in solo, as well as enabling MB and CA in group settings.
Could even have fun with adding new gear with on dodge/parry effect triggers depending on the way the Mark is implemented. In addition to synergizing with Watchul Mark, said gear would help out both hunter and shaman tanks, while not messing with other tank power levels significantly, since it'd be chainmail. Lastly, it'd open up Survival hunters for the potential of future abilities centered around reactive play, making for a unique and interactive playstyle.


If you wanted to take it further, you could add a melee AP or crit% bonus to it for yourself and the target, and maybe even have that instead of AotW. (I've been playing melee hunter for a long time, and I'm not a fan of AotW. I'd prefer to just stick with monkey.)
Having it be a melee AP bonus to anything that attacks the target's target instead would fit more with the Mark theme, but I'd imagine that's harder to implement, not to mention possibly too strong in raids. (Or is it exactly what melee hunters need to be viable in raids? An alternative to trueshot aura? In that case it'd probably have to be the final talent after Counterattack, in tier 5 or higher, to prevent MM hunters from picking up both)


Other than that, I'd like to see the minimum range on Distracting Shot reduced. Not to 0 but to, say, 3y. I tank a lot of 5mans and while I rarely have issues, one annoying thing I routinely run into is non-focus mobs peeling to the healer or ranged dps, and them standing too close for distracting shot to fire, making me choose between running towards them to grab aggro in melee, or running further away to cast distracting shot. In almost all cases, just grabbing the mob in melee is the superior option. Having Distracting Shot castable from a shorter, but not zero range, would fix this, without it losing its flavour and just becoming part of a melee rotation.


Lastly, as other people have mentioned, some form of scaling for MB and/or CA would go a long way.

[Markuis]

How about a 1 point survival talent, maybe wedged in between Deterrence and Counterattack as a prerequisite. call it Watchful Eye or Watchful Mark, something along those lines.

It'd be a mark, similar to Hunter's Mark, castable on a friendly target. Any time the friendly target dodges or parries, the hunter's on dodge/parry effects trigger, respectively. Only one mark can be active at a time.

It'd allow for pet synergy in solo, as well as enabling MB and CA in group settings.
Could even have fun with adding new gear with on dodge/parry effect triggers depending on the way the Mark is implemented. In addition to synergizing with Watchul Mark, said gear would help out both hunter and shaman tanks, while not messing with other tank power levels significantly, since it'd be chainmail. Lastly, it'd open up Survival hunters for the potential of future abilities centered around reactive play, making for a unique and interactive playstyle.


If you wanted to take it further, you could add a melee AP or crit% bonus to it for yourself and the target, and maybe even have that instead of AotW. (I've been playing melee hunter for a long time, and I'm not a fan of AotW. I'd prefer to just stick with monkey.)
Having it be a melee AP bonus to anything that attacks the target's target instead would fit more with the Mark theme, but I'd imagine that's harder to implement, not to mention possibly too strong in raids. (Or is it exactly what melee hunters need to be viable in raids? An alternative to trueshot aura? In that case it'd probably have to be the final talent after Counterattack, in tier 5 or higher, to prevent MM hunters from picking up both)

Good suggestion. But rather than give the marked ally a "melee AP or crit% bonus" it could be aggro or something else. That target is tanking, isn't it? It would end up making dps warriors the targets of the mark just for the bonus they get, rather than what you actually suggested, someone who is dodging/parrying.

[Kairion]

Aspect of the wolf is a baseline spell, so any Hunter being able to switch to that aspect to place traps mid combat without any CD seems rather good for regular hunter. After all you can enter & exit aspects at will.

[Patkittans]

Good suggestion. But rather than give the marked ally a "melee AP or crit% bonus" it could be aggro or something else. That target is tanking, isn't it? It would end up making dps warriors the targets of the mark just for the bonus they get, rather than what you actually suggested, someone who is dodging/parrying.

Ah, good point. In that case I think making it a small offensive bonus applied to anything that attacks the target's target is best (assuming that's easy enough to code).
Alternatively, if we do stick with the "The target" or "The target and yourself" bonuses, make it anything but threat. 1% dodge and/or parry. A bit of stamina.. If it's threat, it'll mess up hunter tanking and solo play (Hunter tanks, pet off-tanks/dpses). It'd feel pretty bad spending a deep tree talent point on something you can't use at all while you're leveling/actively penalizes the playstyle. (And if it's threat for both the hunter and the target...well, that seems pretty bad for DPS hunters haha)

Whatever it ends up looking like, it should enhance both hunters that want to tank (hunter tanks, not their pet), and DPS hunters.
If all else fails, the talent might just be good enough on its own, without a stat buff. In solo/tank play, casting it on your off-tanking pet (or another tank) will double MB triggers, and allow for people that shy away from taking hits to still be effective when the pet tanks. In DPS roles, it enables full rotation usage.


Here's 2 drafts of the spell:

Watchful Eye
60 mana
100 yd range
Instant
Places a Watchful Mark on a friendly target, increasing the Critical Strike Chance of all attackers against that target's target by 1%. In addition, Any time the target of this ability dodges or parries, the hunter's on dodge/parry effects trigger, respectively. Only one mark can be active at a time. Lasts until cancelled.

Bonus: doing it this way incentivizes unruly DPS to focus down the focus target, making tank lives everywhere a little less stressful :)


Watchful Eye
60 mana
100 yd range
Instant
Places a Watchful Mark on a friendly target, increasing the Dodge Chance of yourself and the target of this ability by 1%. In addition, Any time the target of this ability dodges or parries, the hunter's on dodge/parry effects trigger, respectively. Only one mark can be active at a time. Lasts until cancelled.

Bonus: Hunters that are tanking are incentivized to have this up, increasing their avoidance by 1% and either increasing MB uptime (by casting it on their off-tanking pet), or protecting a vulnerable target a tiny bit (by casting it on them).


Numbers are off the top of my head and subject to change, of course

[Zyrael]

Aspect of the wolf is a baseline spell, so any Hunter being able to switch to that aspect to place traps mid combat without any CD seems rather good for regular hunter. After all you can enter & exit aspects at will.

You would have to switch aspect run in, place trap run out again. That's a lot of time moving and everything is on GCD. What's next, disabling melee-weaving cus some ppl can use it to add a small amount of dps?

[Ravenstone]

The problem is Frost or Freezing Traps being placed in PvP without having to use Feign Death. If you open that option to every Hunter then they can just disable and kite every class that they come across.

[Kairion]

Aspect of the wolf is a baseline spell, so any Hunter being able to switch to that aspect to place traps mid combat without any CD seems rather good for regular hunter. After all you can enter & exit aspects at will.

You would have to switch aspect run in, place trap run out again. That's a lot of time moving and everything is on GCD. What's next, disabling melee-weaving cus some ppl can use it to add a small amount of dps?

Yes because mobs tend to not approach you after they are out of frost trap. Are you people all playing world of hit the training dummy? There are more uses out of abilities than for simple dps.

And let me assure you a 15 second cd freezing trap is a different beast than a feign death supported 30 seconds one. I gladly take up having to use ONE GCD to get this option

[Zyrael]

Aspect of the wolf is a baseline spell, so any Hunter being able to switch to that aspect to place traps mid combat without any CD seems rather good for regular hunter. After all you can enter & exit aspects at will.

You would have to switch aspect run in, place trap run out again. That's a lot of time moving and everything is on GCD. What's next, disabling melee-weaving cus some ppl can use it to add a small amount of dps?

Yes because mobs tend to not approach you after they are out of frost trap. Are you people all playing world of hit the training dummy? There are more uses out of abilities than for simple dps.

And let me assure you a 15 second cd freezing trap is a different beast than a feign death supported 30 seconds one. I gladly take up having to use ONE GCD to get this option

Well guess you'll have to delete frost mages then such a shame =/ Seeing as baked into their AOE rotation they got a depeding on spec 70% permaslow. Which u can constantly reposition with 100% uptime.

[Kairion]

Are you a mage? No, why do you compare yourself to one?

Hunter is no slouch in the slow department either and frost trap is instant while sheeping has casttime and can be interrupted. sheep does heal your target while ccd.
Both classes have different strengths and weaknesses.

Arguing you wanna be a mage doesnt exactly help your argument. So im actually making an argument for you:
Allow this in combat use for fire & explosive traps, but not for ice trap and freezing. Then you have the option to use your much needed dps traps when memeing but dont give the utility of the problematic spells to regular hunter. You could also give the hunter a debuff that doesnt allow him to shoot for 20 seconds when placing a trap with such an effect or when exiting wolf. Then the downside is in many cases not worth it for ranged hunter.

Or you could offer cd reduction for fd deep in the survival tree, with prerequisiting melee talents to make it undesirable for ranged hunter to pick it up.

Get creative its your suggestion but please do better than "muh warrior got plate armor, me want too"

[Shamma]

Are you a mage? No, why do you compare yourself to one?

Hunter is no slouch in the slow department either and frost trap is instant while sheeping has casttime and can be interrupted. sheep does heal your target while ccd.
Both classes have different strengths and weaknesses.

Arguing you wanna be a mage doesnt exactly help your argument. So im actually making an argument for you:
Allow this in combat use for fire & explosive traps, but not for ice trap and freezing. Then you have the option to use your much needed dps traps when memeing but dont give the utility of the problematic spells to regular hunter. You could also give the hunter a debuff that doesnt allow him to shoot for 20 seconds when placing a trap with such an effect or when exiting wolf. Then the downside is in many cases not worth it for ranged hunter.

Or you could offer cd reduction for fd deep in the survival tree, with prerequisiting melee talents to make it undesirable for ranged hunter to pick it up.

Get creative its your suggestion but please do better than "muh warrior got plate armor, me want too"

Man, I love you and your sarcastic exaggerations. U always manage to put a smile on my face, when u roll like that.

[Kerenis]

Survival, 31pt talent: Allow hunter to use shields, and Distracting Shot has no deadzone.

Improved Aspect of the Monkey: All your attacks in Aspect of the Monkey cause threat

Solving melee hunter and lack of tanks in 1 shot

[Raukodor]

As a melee Hunter player never thought to become a tank...

I prefer the idea of a agile warrior with fast attacks than a tank

[Roa7175]

This probably won't ever be implemented but I wish there would be no minimum range attack distance for bow/xbow. I want to play as a shooter, pew pew stuff. Who says you can't and aren't able to shoot when the enemies are in front of you...?

If I had wanted to play melee via swords/daggers, I would go rogue/warriors/etc.

Of course, the devs could buff Hunter's melee combat and do something to make it better. I'm not against it. In fact, I would support it even more IF they decides to remove the minimum distance things so that if people wanted to play only bows/xbows, they can.

I think giving players more choices/options in how they play would make the game more enjoyable and replayable(maybe wrong word, perhaps increasing playtime?) in the long run.

[Raukodor]

Any new info to get some buff or scaling?

[Iraz93]

Or create a "lone wolf" passive skill

Increase your damage x% only when your pet is dead/dismissed

But pet can add a nice dps. So the number maybe should be high

Why not have it the other way around.
Something something

Aspect of the Wolf grants you [bonus] whenever both you and your pet are engaged in melee with the same target.
It'd be thematically appropriate to portray the idea of the Hunter getting stuck in the fight together with his pet and fighting in symbiosis with it, rather than just alongside it.

[Vladis]

Stopped playing and still waiting (since june 2022) for melee surv hunter not to be a one-button class on Turtle. It would be awesome and I would be back playing in a second if they added:

1. This lacerate dot spell, AP scalling to RS and MB + make MB to proc from offensive actions, not dodge, under the Wolf Aspect
2. Tweak trap mastery talent to make dps traps usable in combat (under the Wolf Aspect)
3. Some custom gear for melee hunters

Really want to enjoy the upcoming patch, but not with autoattacking all the time or with nobody taking me to parties to these new raids :-(

[Spriggit]

Survival, 31pt talent: Allow hunter to use shields, and Distracting Shot has no deadzone.

Improved Aspect of the Monkey: All your attacks in Aspect of the Monkey cause threat

Solving melee hunter and lack of tanks in 1 shot

Woah, simple and effective, nice! +

[Nerasw]

why not make wolfstance as a stance not an aspect (so u can use any existing) block you from all ranged spells but some new ability(read part 2) and replaces autoshot with single shots (like rogue\warriors)

ALL parts of ability should be unlocked with each new level of Wolf-stance after 1st:

1 - block wolfstance from switching in\out in combat - thats allows us to have traps in combat while in Wolf-stance with no room for jumping in\out wolfstance as ranged hunter

2 - give wolfstance a passive effect based on "upon crit" - after melee crit you can shot a single bullet/arrow with high dmg and no dead-zone (flurry/vengeance style but not just + to att.speed\dmg)

3 - no engage leaves hunter with poor chance t be fun even in pve (run around like paladin but with no spells even at short range) - solution: aspect of cheetah wont daze hunter in wolfstance, same as feral druid so not op for melee class.

4 - in order to not leave hunter with no mana after constant spamming Aspect of Cheetah/Monkey - reduce manacost for all Aspects by 75% when in Wolf-Stance

lack of dmg (most talents are based on using ranged weapons) will push melee hunter to use pets more, thus:

5 - any crit of your pet while hunter affected by Wolf-stance lets him feel the heart of beast within and thirst for blood - he need no dodge to use Mongoose Bite for next 6 seconds
true power of level 5 Wolf-stance is that it opens several paths for melee hunter: deep BM, deep survival (pvp), combine them for some tricky use (to be revealed by players)

most important:

6 - hunter has least crit per agi ratio cuz it affect both melee and range weap dmg - solution:
it is hard to code his ratios and switch em based on stance so will easy to just give bonus % to agility, number is subjective and need to be tested, so i let those smart devs to complete exact number by themselves

[Ravenstone]

why not make wolfstance as a stance not an aspect (so u can use any existing) block you from all ranged spells but some new ability(read part 2) and replaces autoshot with single shots (like rogue\warriors)

Aspects are already like stances in that you can only have one of them active at a time. If you made Wolf into a stance, then it is just encroaching on Warrior territory which should be avoided.

I also don't like the idea of traps in combat. You have to do weird stuff just to get them to work, like disallow certain types of them, or limit them to only being used in a certain Aspect, and on top of that have a criteria to stop switching in and out of that Aspect easily. I think it's better to just leave the traps alone and improve melee hunter in other ways.

5 - any crit of your pet while hunter affected by Wolf-stance lets him feel the heart of beast within and thirst for blood - he need no dodge to use Mongoose Bite for next 6 seconds

This would be fine, though Mongoose Bite needs a buff to it's damage, ideally make it scale.
However, I'd prefer it if you could use Mongoose Bite whenever your pet's attacks were dodged, would thematically be better if you felt you were part of a Wolf pack hunting an opponent and co-ordinating attacks.

[Nerasw]

it is just encroaching on Warrior territory which should be avoided.

... and on top of that have a criteria to stop switching in and out of that Aspect easily...

1st about warriors territory,.. ever heard about druid forms, shadow form or even stealth that has same UI implementation?.. man, like wtf? if you don't like name "Stance" and borrow whole concept - OMG.

2nd about easy switching... did you tried to read about blocking from switching in\out stance while in combat? same post mate, same post

[Ravenstone]

it is just encroaching on Warrior territory which should be avoided.

... and on top of that have a criteria to stop switching in and out of that Aspect easily...

1st about warriors territory,.. ever heard about druid forms, shadow form or even stealth that has same UI implementation?.. man, like wtf? if you don't like name "Stance" and borrow whole concept - OMG.

I could have worded it better. Aspects are the Hunter equivalent to stances. However, they don't limit you as much as other stances, with the sole exception of the new AotW. I'm saying it makes no sense to give Hunters a stance on top of Aspects, especially when it is purely for one style of play, melee. All other Aspects are to encourage something, not limit you. Introducing more arbitary limitations that limit a flexible class seems like a bad change.

2nd about easy switching... did you tried to read about blocking from switching in\out stance while in combat? same post mate, same post

I read it and said I don't like it because you have to do weird stuff to get traps to work properly, such as have a criteria to stop hunters switching in and out at will. I don't like it. You don't currently have these limitations.

[Nerasw]

it is just encroaching on Warrior territory which should be avoided.

... and on top of that have a criteria to stop switching in and out of that Aspect easily...

1st about warriors territory,.. ever heard about druid forms, shadow form or even stealth that has same UI implementation?.. man, like wtf? if you don't like name "Stance" and borrow whole concept - OMG.

I could have worded it better. Aspects are the Hunter equivalent to stances. However, they don't limit you as much as other stances, with the sole exception of the new AotW. I'm saying it makes no sense to give Hunters a stance on top of Aspects, especially when it is purely for one style of play, melee. All other Aspects are to encourage something, not limit you. Introducing more arbitary limitations that limit a flexible class seems like a bad change.

2nd about easy switching... did you tried to read about blocking from switching in\out stance while in combat? same post mate, same post

I read it and said I don't like it because you have to do weird stuff to get traps to work properly, such as have a criteria to stop hunters switching in and out at will. I don't like it. You don't currently have these limitations.

if your arguments is " You don't currently have _something_" to stop ppl from suggesting that _something_ i bet you dont understand the concept of suggestions forum section

[Ravenstone]

if your arguments is " You don't currently have _something_" to stop ppl from suggesting that _something_ i bet you dont understand the concept of suggestions forum section

Thats all you comprehended from what I wrote? I just say when I don't like suggestions, especially when they go against vanilla class mechanics and are forced, like yours here.

It is a suggestions forum after all, I am allowed to criticise your suggestion.

[Nerasw]

if your arguments is " You don't currently have _something_" to stop ppl from suggesting that _something_ i bet you dont understand the concept of suggestions forum section

Thats all you comprehended from what I wrote? I just say when I don't like suggestions, especially when they go against vanilla class mechanics and are forced, like yours here.

It is a suggestions forum after all, I am allowed to criticise your suggestion.

you are free to criticise with arguments, how pity you have non