Some quick, rogue-related suggestions.

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Some quick, rogue-related suggestions.

Post by Gantulga » Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:05 am

The amount of custom changes to rogue is extremely underwhelming compared to what was done to other classes (even though those were already powerhouses) so I'd like to pitch in a few ideas.

1. Disguises.

Cool idea but poor implementation. The fact that they don't work in combat already makes the whole thing largely pointless. If they worked in combat then rogue would have its own version of Deviate Delights to have fun with, with zero impact on game's balance.
I don't see why disguises couldn't be updated to be actually fun. As they are right now, the whole system feels wasted.
Likewise, having gender-specific models would be very welcome. How about something silly like an epic-level quest to unlock Demon Hunter disguise?

2. Utility.

Here I'll look at mages since I consider them the magical counterpart of rogue, PvP and PvE-wise both. Mages received limited lockpicking and refreshment tables, improving their already high utility further.
I don't think rogue needs anything radical and groundbreaking but a simple change like making Improved Sap baseline will help a whole lot.
Baseline Improved Sap would mean that PvE-built rogues will be able to safely sap in dungeons, granting them some utility they lack compared to some classes which received new tools.
PvP-wise, the talent can be replaced with many options which wouldn't really buff or change the current "meta" specs at all but may open new possibilities. How about Waylay? Then again, some classes which were already powerhouses in PvP, received pretty crazy buffs and new abilities so I don't think that PvP balance is a big headache which haunts the developers.

Shadowmeld is by far the worst racial for a rogue. The extra stealth levels you get as compensation do not amount to much and Night Elf does not bring to the table passives like Sword Specialization.
My idea is to turn it into a personal counterpart to Perception when used by rogues, granting you "perfect stealth" for 20 seconds on 3 minute cooldown, off GCD and usable in stealth. That means you're immune to stealth-detecting abilities (not damage) and can walk directly through monsters.
This would give some cool PvE utility and let Night Elf rogues fight hunters with a little boost, a class rogues struggle against. Also a way to re-use the Cloak of Shadows animation, sound and filter.

3. Combat

I was excited about the new skills, namely Surprise Attack and Flourish.

Sadly though, one skill was gutted and the other has a way too low duration to be of much relevance. Deadly Throw sits weird with me since it opens an entirely new tool the likes of which the class does not have in vanilla, that is of a ranged finisher. I do appreciate that this ability may help against mages, where rogue tends to struggle but it is also a rather radical change.

Why was Surprise Attack removed? I think it was a brilliant idea which would have worked greatly along with Flourish both in PvE and in rogue vs rogue matches.
Flourish definitely needs to scale better with combo points. One second per CP is just painful to even look at.

Something else I would love to see is silence on Garrote. As it stands, this opener is largely unused and entirely underwhelming. This change would also help against mages.

4. Itemization

I'm looking at Close Quarters Combat, Throwing Weapon Specialization and Deadly Throw and I am greatly confused.

I do like the idea behind those changes, but where's the actual gear to support them? There are literally only two fist weapons from PvE content that you'd use as a main hand on rogue, one being Willey's Back Scratcher and the other is Claw of the Black Drake. Those two aside, your only other option is the R14 fist. Fists are also largely non-existing during leveling.
Adding more fists would go a long way. How about some crafted options?
Making fists more prevalent would also enable potential future goodness, like dual-wielding enhancement shaman for example.

Throwing weapons are in an even worse spot. There's only one blue throwing weapon that cannot even be farmed and has no stats.
If the intent is to keep them consuming stacks, then I think that decent throwing weapons with stats should be easily craftable for all level ranges and qualities.
How about turning them into normal weapons with extremely high durability (let's say 1000), and making each attack consume one point? That way there would still be the gold sink of having to repair them all the time and it would allow the addition of custom throwing weapons to loot tables.

On a side note, throwing weapons could eventually be expanded towards survival/"melee" hunter archetype and giving trolls some love.
Last edited by Gantulga on Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Some quick, rogue-related suggestions.

Post by Tendies » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:34 pm

Just no disguises in bg's. It was bad enough with all the jellies.
Also I think disguises were meant for RP.

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Re: Some quick, rogue-related suggestions.

Post by Gantulga » Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:00 pm

You can already use deviates and noggs in BGs so I don't think that's an issue. Unless that's disabled here?

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Re: Some quick, rogue-related suggestions.

Post by Samhain » Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:04 pm

Gantulga wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:00 pm
You can already use deviates and noggs in BGs so I don't think that's an issue. Unless that's disabled here?
Agreed, seems like a non-issue

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