Lets talk Warmode and PvP.

[Jongyi]

I would disagree with the mentality of "if you have warmode, you accept this."

If warmode is on, I'd be fine with fighting in pvp of my level. But instead I'm just ganked by lvl 60 characters. How is that fair or fun?

This

[Jarlson]

if turtle wow would create a mirror server that is pvp and fresh however hardcore mode is disabled allowing normal wpvp encounters while also keeping cross faction dungeons and raids i think it would be a huge success. granted it would split the new players but it would allow what my friends and i want to do more freely and without stigma and would also invite a lot of pvp players to the server

[Gantulga]

I'll pitch in my PvP experience as a relatively new player (will hit 40 soon-ish) who's been playing with Warmode enabled since the beginning:

I've had a grand total of 3 PvP encounters:

1. Two level 19 twink rogues camping the elite orc castle at Redridge. This one wasn't even bad as I managed to get a couple kills since I'm not wearing junk myself.
I didn't mind the gank games but the rest of my group who wasn't flagged, just ragequit after one wipe and so I wasn't able to finish the quests.
This is one of the issue created by trying to segregate the playerbases, because by grouping with and supporting a flagged player, you're flagging yourself too. This creates a dissonance and conflict of interests while grouping. The server isn't big enough to recruit only PvP flagged players for your outdoor activities.

2. Some levels 60 riding around STV and killing lowbies while talking trash in world chat. Multiple victims called for reinforcements but nobody ever arrived.
From my experience of playing on many PvP servers over the years, when people kill lowbies, their intent is to provoke a fight and have actual competitors come. This doesn't seem to happen here and I'm confused as to why. Those 60's are happy oneshoting low levels and other 60's aren't interested in PvP to come and put up a fight despite people asking for help.
This is recreated again in the last scenario:

3. After weeks, I finally and for the first time find a PvP flagged player of own level! Excitedly I approach and attack him. He does not seem to fight back and just stands there until I kill him. I do not attack again or camp once he comes back, just letting him be.
He runs away and a few minutes later there's a geared level 60 coming from the same direction, killing me on sight, laughing and trying to camp (which I didn't let happen and just moved away as he wasted time).
This player obviously turned the Warmode on exclusively for the 30% EXP boost and does not want to engage in actual PvP.


The vast majority of players I see, are not flagged. Needless to say that the experience has been very underwhelming and I completely agree that slapping an EXP bonus there wasn't a wise move as it attracts people powerleveling alts and not people who want to PvP.
I would gladly part with the EXP bonus and have it changed into something tangible such as gaining some reputation with BGs while doing WPvP so you can at least buy some of that basic BG gear as you progress. No bonus whatsoever is fine too. I want to PvP for fun, not for perks.

[Jesterjacks]

Sadly, my experience with outdoor pvp is the same. I either got ganked by twinks until lvl 25-ish, or I got decimated by lvl 60. And as I said before, the only reason why I picked warmode is because I thought I'd have more of a chance if pvp happens. I do want the 30% speed because I just don't have the time with work and everything and 30% is a lot in the long span.

In hindsight, with all the corpseganking and twink killing, I'm not sure if it was worth it... It got somewhat better past 30 but I've yet to encounter someone of my lvl to fight with. It's just lvl 60s that kill me... I even got killed in stormwind mage tower past the portals.

Again. Even got killed in stormwind mage tower past the portals. I think I'm insane to have continued for 30% exp...

Then there's people who just tell me "you're pvp, you asked for this".

No. I ASKED for a fair fight, not to get corpse ganked by lvl 60s and killed in stormwind.

[Jesterjacks]

Ah, and, any attempt to RP? I just got killed.

[Jubabuba]

Sadly, my experience with outdoor pvp is the same. I either got ganked by twinks until lvl 25-ish, or I got decimated by lvl 60. And as I said before, the only reason why I picked warmode is because I thought I'd have more of a chance if pvp happens. I do want the 30% speed because I just don't have the time with work and everything and 30% is a lot in the long span.

In hindsight, with all the corpseganking and twink killing, I'm not sure if it was worth it... It got somewhat better past 30 but I've yet to encounter someone of my lvl to fight with. It's just lvl 60s that kill me... I even got killed in stormwind mage tower past the portals.

Again. Even got killed in stormwind mage tower past the portals. I think I'm insane to have continued for 30% exp...

Then there's people who just tell me "you're pvp, you asked for this".

No. I ASKED for a fair fight, not to get corpse ganked by lvl 60s and killed in stormwind.

You are describing every pvp server since WoWs existence.
It is nothing new you get ganged by 60s or Zergs or get killed somewhere you feel safe.
You want a fair fight? Do BGs, Arena or play a fresh vanilla pvp server when a project starts and try to power level to keep up with the other guys on the server or else *start reading the text above again*.
You can't change human behavior.
My point is just this men you have the choice pvp with the usual problems that comes along with it plus 30% exp or no pvp no problems and just the usual exp.
If the team takes the 30%out of warmode would you stop playing cuz it is to slow to level?

I personally play with warmode just like you just for the exp if the devs take that away I will deactivate warmode for sure.

A pvp zone where everyone who enters is flagged with some objectives would be very nice.

[Jongyi]

Sadly, my experience with outdoor pvp is the same. I either got ganked by twinks until lvl 25-ish, or I got decimated by lvl 60. And as I said before, the only reason why I picked warmode is because I thought I'd have more of a chance if pvp happens. I do want the 30% speed because I just don't have the time with work and everything and 30% is a lot in the long span.

In hindsight, with all the corpseganking and twink killing, I'm not sure if it was worth it... It got somewhat better past 30 but I've yet to encounter someone of my lvl to fight with. It's just lvl 60s that kill me... I even got killed in stormwind mage tower past the portals.

Again. Even got killed in stormwind mage tower past the portals. I think I'm insane to have continued for 30% exp...

Then there's people who just tell me "you're pvp, you asked for this".

No. I ASKED for a fair fight, not to get corpse ganked by lvl 60s and killed in stormwind.

You are describing every pvp server since WoWs existence.
It is nothing new you get ganged by 60s or Zergs or get killed somewhere you feel safe.
You want a fair fight? Do BGs, Arena or play a fresh vanilla pvp server when a project starts and try to power level to keep up with the other guys on the server or else *start reading the text above again*.
You can't change human behavior.
My point is just this men you have the choice pvp with the usual problems that comes along with it plus 30% exp or no pvp no problems and just the usual exp.
If the team takes the 30%out of warmode would you stop playing cuz it is to slow to level?

I personally play with warmode just like you just for the exp if the devs take that away I will deactivate warmode for sure.

A pvp zone where everyone who enters is flagged with some objectives would be very nice.

Dude, this is not a PVP server. This is PVE RP servers where most ppl come for leveling and custom contents.

[Adunai]

Rpers have been outnumbered and even PvE players are beginning to notice the irritating issues of griefers going after quest NPCs and the abysmal respawn time, its become a bit of an issue for warmode and non-warmode alike.

Maybe, the reason is... the higher population? The server has grown from 0.5k to 2.5k concurrent players over a span of 2 months, it ought to have increased the natural competition over quest NPCs. No griefing necessary to explain it.

Why was this even considered for an RP-PvE server? We're a PvE server for a reason and tying a PvE Reward of an XP Boost to PvP content wasn't a good idea in my opinion. No one is coming here for world pvp, the faction dynamic and zone wars.

I cannot speak of anyone but myself, but I have indeed come to Turtle - 4 years after DodgyKebaab taught me of the server's existence - primarily because it has become so much livelier! I do believe we could combine the best of the both worlds - the marvelous community, full of friendly book-reading women on the one hand, and the competitive spirit of a high-population realm on the other. It is one of a kind experience, and I would see as a mistake such unnecessary antagonisation.

Dude, this is not a PVP server. This is PVE RP servers where most ppl come for leveling and custom contents.

Umm... But isn't PvP possible out in the wide world? The world so meticulously embellished by the Turtle team? Isn't it wondrous to explore it - in danger and caution?

P.S. And regarding being "nice" - would you find it nice when I buy mats off the auction house only to sell them at higher prices? How would you deal with that?

[Jongyi]

Rpers have been outnumbered and even PvE players are beginning to notice the irritating issues of griefers going after quest NPCs and the abysmal respawn time, its become a bit of an issue for warmode and non-warmode alike.

Maybe, the reason is... the higher population? The server has grown from 0.5k to 2.5k concurrent players over a span of 2 months, it ought to have increased the natural competition over quest NPCs. No griefing necessary to explain it.

Why was this even considered for an RP-PvE server? We're a PvE server for a reason and tying a PvE Reward of an XP Boost to PvP content wasn't a good idea in my opinion. No one is coming here for world pvp, the faction dynamic and zone wars.

I cannot speak of anyone but myself, but I have indeed come to Turtle - 4 years after DodgyKebaab taught me of the server's existence - primarily because it has become so much livelier! I do believe we could combine the best of the both worlds - the marvelous community, full of friendly book-reading women on the one hand, and the competitive spirit of a high-population realm on the other. It is one of a kind experience, and I would see as a mistake such unnecessary antagonisation.

Dude, this is not a PVP server. This is PVE RP servers where most ppl come for leveling and custom contents.

Umm... But isn't PvP possible out in the wide world? The world so meticulously embellished by the Turtle team? Isn't it wondrous to explore it - in danger and caution?

P.S. And regarding being "nice" - would you find it nice when I buy mats off the auction house only to sell them at higher prices? How would you deal with that?

Dude, you are so oblivious to the issues and rising trend of toxicity in the world. Are you aware griefing is a serious issue. I cannot understand why you dismiss toxicity and griefing as minor issue from increasing population.
You should come out of your 'idealized' version of turtle and then you will see the glaring issues people have been voicing.

[Jonas1974]

Warmode has kinda ruined my enjoyment of the server. Let me explain why.

I initially joined a PVE server, because i don't care for PVP servers. There's plenty of options for PVP servers out there, but PVE servers are really rare.
I also love the hardcore mode, because it's thrilling that you could lose your character at any moment when you're not careful. You put a lot more effort into planing and upgrading your character. I'm totally fine with dying to mobs and losing my character. It's my own fault and i accept it.

What i'm really not okay with is all the new warmode players trying to trick you into flagging yourself for pvp. The amount of times i had warmode players SITTING ON TOP OF MOBS just so you might accidentally attack them and then they could kill you is simply staggering. Mind you this happens if you just happen to click an attack when a mob is dead and you then auto-attack the warmode player sitting on top of the dead mob. We all know how "boring" certain classes are where you just hit 1 1 1 1 until the mob is dead. Don't pay attention for a few seconds and you could be ganked and your character is gone. Not because you died to mobs on a PVE server, like it's supposed to be, but because PVP players want to trick and kill you.

This is no longer a "just ignore PVP players" scenario when they're actively trying to trick you. This is harassment of PVE players. On a PVE server. Tickets to GMs yielded no results. It's just baffling how annoying this is. You constantly have to be on the lookout for PVP players actively trying to ruin your day. The complete opposite of a PVE server!

PS. Warmode also completely killed buffing random passing players, which was always a neat part of classic. I don't want to accidentally flag myself for PVP, get ganked and lose my character. Sure, there's probably macros out there for that, but do i really have to go out of my way to avoid dealing with PVP players on a PVE server?!

[Jongyi]

Warmode has kinda ruined my enjoyment of the server. Let me explain why.

I initially joined a PVE server, because i don't care for PVP servers. There's plenty of options for PVP servers out there, but PVE servers are really rare.
I also love the hardcore mode, because it's thrilling that you could lose your character at any moment when you're not careful. You put a lot more effort into planing and upgrading your character. I'm totally fine with dying to mobs and losing my character. It's my own fault and i accept it.

What i'm really not okay with is all the new warmode players trying to trick you into flagging yourself for pvp. The amount of times i had warmode players SITTING ON TOP OF MOBS just so you might accidentally attack them and then they could kill you is simply staggering. Mind you this happens if you just happen to click an attack when a mob is dead and you then auto-attack the warmode player sitting on top of the dead mob. We all know how "boring" certain classes are where you just hit 1 1 1 1 until the mob is dead. Don't pay attention for a few seconds and you could be ganked and your character is gone. Not because you died to mobs on a PVE server, like it's supposed to be, but because PVP players want to trick and kill you.

This is no longer a "just ignore PVP players" scenario when they're actively trying to trick you. This is harassment of PVE players. On a PVE server. Tickets to GMs yielded no results. It's just baffling how annoying this is. You constantly have to be on the lookout for PVP players actively trying to ruin your day. The complete opposite of a PVE server!

PS. Warmode also completely killed buffing random passing players, which was always a neat part of classic. I don't want to accidentally flag myself for PVP, get ganked and lose my character. Sure, there's probably macros out there for that, but do i really have to go out of my way to avoid dealing with PVP players on a PVE server?!

Agreed to your experience, buds. PVERs at the servers are now basically at the mercy of PVPers. Devs should really do something about this if they care the longevity of the server.
If they don't care, then it is their history

[Angulardrift]

I believe theres one solution for warmode.

-5 +5 level limit on pvp
remove 30% Bonus XP, give 30% Bonus Honor

[Jongyi]

I believe theres one solution for warmode.

-5 +5 level limit on pvp
remove 30% Bonus XP, give 30% Bonus Honor

Yes, this ideas sound acceptable. 30% bonus honor should be the deal
For 30% bonus exp, it should be something like if you have L.v60 character in your account, your toons will have 30-50% bonus exp or something like that.

[Jambiya]

There was a point in vanilla wows development where the devs thought about adding direct negative consequences to excessive dishonorable kills. I made a note of it at the bottom of my fugitive mode/dishonorable consequence suggestion a while back: viewtopic.php?t=2546, where Kazgrim quoted from the old wow manual. While dishonorable ranks do exist here, it's mostly just flavor text and doesn't really impact gameplay. As such griefers can run amuck with no real consequence to their actions.

Personally I think if there was a way to create mechanically negative effects for excessive griefers it could serve as a natural deterrent. How something like that can be implemented, however, is another story. Wouldn't mind a pvp interaction level range at least for warmode as mentioned by Jongyi too.

[Zynim]

I would disagree with the mentality of "if you have warmode, you accept this."

If warmode is on, I'd be fine with fighting in pvp of my level. But instead I'm just ganked by lvl 60 characters. How is that fair or fun?

Warmode is a challenge. It's not a catch-up method for the slow vanilla leveling process like others have mentioned, that is what tents are for. If you accept warmode, you're accepting the challenge of leveling while flagged with the benefit of a 30% experience boost. If you don't want to deal with the issues resulting from the challenge don't accept it.

If a quest NPC is getting killed, interact with your community. Communicate with your guild, and other players in your zone to organize a response. If you're unable to do that, move on to another zone. The only change I would make is to make the Local Defense channels only available to the faction that owns the zone (horde players shouldn't be able to see Alliance communication on the defense channel in Westfall). There are maybe a handful of griefers, most are well known and are hunted as soon as someone actually communicates where they are.

[Zynim]

I believe theres one solution for warmode.

-5 +5 level limit on pvp
remove 30% Bonus XP, give 30% Bonus Honor

So you don't want griefing, but you want to increase the honor one can gain from corpse camping. This would only exacerbate the issue you're complaining about.

[Jongyi]

I would disagree with the mentality of "if you have warmode, you accept this."

If warmode is on, I'd be fine with fighting in pvp of my level. But instead I'm just ganked by lvl 60 characters. How is that fair or fun?

Warmode is a challenge. It's not a catch-up method for the slow vanilla leveling process like others have mentioned, that is what tents are for. If you accept warmode, you're accepting the challenge of leveling while flagged with the benefit of a 30% experience boost. If you don't want to deal with the issues resulting from the challenge don't accept it.

If a quest NPC is getting killed, interact with your community. Communicate with your guild, and other players in your zone to organize a response. If you're unable to do that, move on to another zone. The only change I would make is to make the Local Defense channels only available to the faction that owns the zone (horde players shouldn't be able to see Alliance communication on the defense channel in Westfall). There are maybe a handful of griefers, most are well known and are hunted as soon as someone actually communicates where they are.

If the solutions are as simple as u suggest, this issue wouldn't be that big as it is now. By poorly implementing the warmode, it encourage the worst of human behavior. You can see the excessive ganking, griefing, PVPers insulting PVErs in the world chat.
Griefers are thriving as now it is because there is basically no consequences for their toxicity and no moderation.
Devs should see the issues. Blindly shilling and ignoring glaring issues will further divide the essence of community and hurt the longevity of the server

[Gantulga]

I would disagree with the mentality of "if you have warmode, you accept this."

If warmode is on, I'd be fine with fighting in pvp of my level. But instead I'm just ganked by lvl 60 characters. How is that fair or fun?

Warmode is a challenge. It's not a catch-up method for the slow vanilla leveling process like others have mentioned, that is what tents are for. If you accept warmode, you're accepting the challenge of leveling while flagged with the benefit of a 30% experience boost. If you don't want to deal with the issues resulting from the challenge don't accept it.

If a quest NPC is getting killed, interact with your community. Communicate with your guild, and other players in your zone to organize a response. If you're unable to do that, move on to another zone. The only change I would make is to make the Local Defense channels only available to the faction that owns the zone (horde players shouldn't be able to see Alliance communication on the defense channel in Westfall). There are maybe a handful of griefers, most are well known and are hunted as soon as someone actually communicates where they are.

If the solutions are as simple as u suggest, this issue wouldn't be that big as it is now. By poorly implementing the warmode, it encourage the worst of human behavior. You can see the excessive ganking, griefing, PVPers insulting PVErs in the world chat.
Griefers are thriving as now it is because there is basically no consequences for their toxicity and no moderation.
Devs should see the issues. Blindly shilling and ignoring glaring issues will further divide the essence of community and hurt the longevity of the server

The fact that a single 60 can terrorize a low level zone for hours only means that there isn't enough PvP participation. The same applies to the fact that you barely if ever see flagged players while leveling, and even those rarely fight back.

PvP should be self-moderated but the community simply doesn't engage in it enough. Why? I don't really know and to be honest I haven't seen those issues on any other server I've played on. People are generally happy to hunt down those bullying lowbies but that isn't the case here.

[Towdon2]

This all really just seems like a moderation issue if it's an issue at all.

On Classic or Retail if you grief Quest givers you get banned, it's as simple as that. That's not to say killing an NPC is going to get actions taken against you but if you sit there and kill the same NPC 3-4 times with the intent to prevent people from turning in or picking up the quest then you would.

I think the bigger issue that isn't being talked about is how Warmode interacts with the LFT tool. Right now if I get into a 5 man with any horde (Literally every 5 man) through the LFT tool I have no control over other players killing me and camping my body. If I defend myself then I get removed from my group and potentially lose my spot in the group and if I don't defend myself then I just get camped and can't leave / am forced to take Rez Sickness. It's a lose lose situation for me and I have zero control about this as it's not explained well anywhere.

A recommendation I would give is either remove PvP all together while in a LFT group with the opposite faction, or don't remove players from the party for doing PvP. Both recommendations have problems but imo the risks are worth the enjoyment of the player.

[Fizzles]

I would lock any NPCs that gave quests or a flight point to become unattackable(and not aggro at all) by anyone like with the NPCs in starting zones. It isn’t a perfect solution when quest objectives can be griefed, but it will allow people to turn in quests.


The best solution though is to keep warmode limited to PvP rewards to stop baiting PvE players into taking the glyph. It’s funny to see the amount of angry whispers that warmoders give out when they are ganked for taking a glyph that enables them to get griefed.

[Ibimseinschurke]

I play here since 4 weeks and got ganked only 1 time, and they killed flight aster. So it really isn't a "problem". I see pvp players get ignored often...
I like that you can disturb players with killing npc, because this way there is a reason to make respond. But still it is a tickling. There is so much you can do elsewhere, I can not understand people who get angry because they have to wait 30 minutes to get a q in. It's acktchually a good way to get people clother together and form a community. Company's pay a lot for this stuff - team building xD

[Jongyi]

I play here since 4 weeks and got ganked only 1 time, and they killed flight aster. So it really isn't a "problem". I see pvp players get ignored often...
I like that you can disturb players with killing npc, because this way there is a reason to make respond. But still it is a tickling. There is so much you can do elsewhere, I can not understand people who get angry because they have to wait 30 minutes to get a q in. It's acktchually a good way to get people clother together and form a community. Company's pay a lot for this stuff - team building xD

i have to read twice and still not sure it is sarcasm

[Jesterjacks]

I would disagree with the mentality of "if you have warmode, you accept this."

If warmode is on, I'd be fine with fighting in pvp of my level. But instead I'm just ganked by lvl 60 characters. How is that fair or fun?

Warmode is a challenge. It's not a catch-up method for the slow vanilla leveling process like others have mentioned, that is what tents are for. If you accept warmode, you're accepting the challenge of leveling while flagged with the benefit of a 30% experience boost. If you don't want to deal with the issues resulting from the challenge don't accept it.

If a quest NPC is getting killed, interact with your community. Communicate with your guild, and other players in your zone to organize a response. If you're unable to do that, move on to another zone. The only change I would make is to make the Local Defense channels only available to the faction that owns the zone (horde players shouldn't be able to see Alliance communication on the defense channel in Westfall). There are maybe a handful of griefers, most are well known and are hunted as soon as someone actually communicates where they are.

If the solutions are as simple as u suggest, this issue wouldn't be that big as it is now. By poorly implementing the warmode, it encourage the worst of human behavior. You can see the excessive ganking, griefing, PVPers insulting PVErs in the world chat.
Griefers are thriving as now it is because there is basically no consequences for their toxicity and no moderation.
Devs should see the issues. Blindly shilling and ignoring glaring issues will further divide the essence of community and hurt the longevity of the server

This

[Jonas1974]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/com ... urtle_wow/
Plenty more opinions on the warmode discussion. Most of them seem to agree that the server is becoming more and more toxic for PVE players.
What a shame, because the server once used to be a chill community for PVE players. Now it's slowly, but surely becoming like every other hateful and toxic PVP server out there...

[Fin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/com ... urtle_wow/
Plenty more opinions on the warmode discussion. Most of them seem to agree that the server is becoming more and more toxic for PVE players.
What a shame, because the server once used to be a chill community for PVE players. Now it's slowly, but surely becoming like every other hateful and toxic PVP server out there...

Please go and read the newly update rules post. Measures are being taken.

viewtopic.php?p=12799#p12799

The post was up before you made this comment. Please try to work with staff towards solving the problem instead of going on vague tangents: about how toxic this server is becoming.

The work conduct is clear: Rules > GM action.
Gm could not take any action because they were no rules about it.

[Jongyi]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/com ... urtle_wow/
Plenty more opinions on the warmode discussion. Most of them seem to agree that the server is becoming more and more toxic for PVE players.
What a shame, because the server once used to be a chill community for PVE players. Now it's slowly, but surely becoming like every other hateful and toxic PVP server out there...

Please go and read the newly update rules post. Measures are being taken.

viewtopic.php?p=12799#p12799

The post was up before you made this comment. Please try to work with staff towards solving the problem instead of going on vague tangents: about how toxic this server is becoming.

The work conduct is clear: Rules > GM action.
Gm could not take any action because they were no rules about it.

How about considering more permanent solutions like fixing the warmode to become more PVP oriented instead of exp-bait? It will help reduce a lot of drama.
And increasing toxicity and hostility against PVE RP players are clearly the issues and anyone with common sense can see it. And it originated from introduction of warmode slapped with exp bait. OG RP PVE playerbase is trying to help devs to work on the solution because we all love Turtle and come for custom contents, not to be ridiculed by toxic trolls. OG players are pointing this out because we still care for turtle.
Ignoring this issue can only hurt the server.
Turtle community was closely-knitted, warm and has a special place in all our heart. And it is not too late to bring back our community yet.

[Fin]

Changes to warmode are being discussed. Expect a announcement about the state of the situation soon.

Please don't treat this like staff is not doing anything about this. Solutions to problems will come as soon as possible. There are a lot to consider. There are multiple sides to each problem. What you like, others dislike.

Please keep the discussion to Solution-Problem, instead of going into vague tangents about the state of the community.

[Myrkul]

I'm done if administration decides to remove the xp gain from the Warmode. I didn't get corpse camped for first twenty levels by unique individuals like Redridgeboss so I can now lose all the benefits while being level 40.
Warmode is a decision and you should be expecting the punishment if you decided to cut corners and get 30% more xp. I was okay to accept it. Losing the payoff because some people can't handle the heat seems extremely unfair.
Also I don't know how exactly the Warmode is supposedly punishing the PvE RP part of the community. If you accepted Warmode you become a PvP player enticed by the benefit, simple as.

If NPCs being killed is really that big of an issue (Never seen it happening to me) I'd say disable warmode from level 60 players. Because from personal experience 90% of corpse camping and griefing is being caused by bored level 60 players. Leave warmode on for people who actually level and want to risk being killed by other players.
Or if you really have to disable it leave the xp bonus on for a period of time.

Alternatively, if it's possible from a technical standpoint. Allow players to only PVP tag NPCs and players with similar level - or in zones that are designated for their level bracket (probably hard/impossible to do tho)

[Valadorn]

Changes to warmode are being discussed. Expect a announcement about the state of the situation soon.

Please don't treat this like staff is not doing anything about this. Solutions to problems will come as soon as possible. There are a lot to consider. There are multiple sides to each problem. What you like, others dislike.

Please keep the discussion to Solution-Problem, instead of going into vague tangents about the state of the community.

While discussing about it, please keep in mind that the players that complain about it are usually unafected, they Just want to complain. Also it is totally a choice and all it does is the same as if the players could /pvp themselves manually, but more permanent as a challenge with a reward. It especially helps ppl that are leveling alts, or do not enjoy a slow leveling process. Having the chance to disable it once, just like slow and steady, should be enough.

Currently the server is welcoming for all kinds of players, and everyone can choose the way they want to play.

Please, please be careful with changing / removing a glyph that attracts a high number of ppl and is mostly enjoyed and unique.


I am pretty sure the new rules will fix the problem, since the griefers are not the same with the pvp community, theres only a couple of them.

[Ishilu]

Some thoughts about warmode:

A) It affects all players, whether they want or not. At the moment, it is possible to be unwillingly pvp-flagged, and I have seen this being exploited. Making PvP'ers yellow for PvE'ers opens up possiblilities to exploit the system.

Possible solution: instead of warmode, just give PvE'ers a debuff that prefents them from attacking other players or being attacked by them. Put an NPC into Org an SW where you can turn it on and off.

B) Behaviour among PvP'ers: Open world PvP allows for ganking and other unfair methods. It's not pretty, but it's not a new thing, either get used to it, or switch warmode off, folks.

Possible solution: nope, there is none
But seriously, I believe some griefing might be from PvP'ers who are just bored while queing for BG's. Now, if we look at TBC, they had these world PvP events like the towers in terrokar forest. Maybe we could give our PvP'ers something like that? Just add a timer to these, and people can log at specific times for a guaranteed dose of PvP, instead of hanging around in a BG queue for an unknown time while getting stupid ideas.

[Valadorn]

Some thoughts about warmode:

A) It affects all players, whether they want or not. At the moment, it is possible to be unwillingly pvp-flagged, and I have seen this being exploited. Making PvP'ers yellow for PvE'ers opens up possiblilities to exploit the system.

It only affects them as much as the glyphed player would type /pvp and walk into the AOE, removing the glyph wouldnt change that behavior. Flagged ppl have green names, unflagged have blue.

If you dont want to get flagged, you gotta avoid green player names + pve players always have the endge, as in they hit first

What i am trying to say, is you dont need the glyph to abuse the system.

[Xgaldarx]

Some thoughts about warmode:

A) It affects all players, whether they want or not. At the moment, it is possible to be unwillingly pvp-flagged, and I have seen this being exploited. Making PvP'ers yellow for PvE'ers opens up possiblilities to exploit the system.

Possible solution: instead of warmode, just give PvE'ers a debuff that prefents them from attacking other players or being attacked by them. Put an NPC into Org an SW where you can turn it on and off.

This ! Just make it that unless you are already flagged for pvp you can not do anything to pvp flagged player (positive or negative) instead of getting flagged yourself - that way there is no way to exploit

[Ishilu]

If you dont want to get flagged, you gotta avoid green player names + pve players always have the endge, as in they hit first

What i am trying to say, is you dont need the glyph to abuse the system.

I'm afraid that's not quite correct. In the past few days I've seen several attempts from yellow players to flag me or others for pvp, e.g. by riding right next to my mage when I'm likely to throw a frost nova at a pursuing mob. Btw, I could not even see that guys level.

So, we not only have to avoid buffing green people but also watch our AE spells, shouts, totems, cleaves etc when a yellow guy is nearby, and we can't prevent them from just stacking on us, waiting for their opening. And that's the real problem I'm seeing here.

[Hombrehongo]

I play warmode just for the xp increase, i enjoy questing to 60 but its too slow for my taste. I dont attack other players but i was killed several times by lvl 60 players. I didn`t mind that much since the xp gain makes up for it but i see how this affects other players.
I have a suggestion to make warmode better for the server. Instead of 30% increase xp let warmode player gain sizable xp from battlegrounds and from killing players in the world lets say with a 5 lvl difference, that change will make BGs from every level bracket more populated. This will bring a problem with items if a warmode player just levels from BGs so maybe they can buy items from quartermasters with honour instead of questing for items? and this items are only accesible to warmode players.
To stop unfair ganking you can forbid warmode players from attackig players over a 5 level difference or give penalties like loss of xp, the bigger the difference of lvl the bigger the penalty. For example if a lvl 55 player ganks a lvl 10 player he might lose several levels but that can bring more problems with low lvl players commiting suicide by AoE to grief a high lvl players.

I dont think there is a perfect solution though and i`m sure that the TWoW devs are making all they can to make the game fun for all of us.

[Striderbrah]

Rpers have been outnumbered and even PvE players are beginning to notice the irritating issues of griefers going after quest NPCs

I think a good way to balance this out would be to encourage more rewards for 'Turtle mode'.
If Turtle mode got a Title and a Leaderboard, next to the Hardcore ones, it would be clear that the focus of the server is PVE, in its many forms.
I don't mind PVP that much, but it definitely encourages "meta-play", which Turtle WoW should try and untie.