Lets talk Warmode and PvP.

[Striderbrah]

someone on the server said it better than I could,
"warmode should be permanent the 1st time"

if it was locked to the player forever, people would realise that it's a commitment and not just an exp boost you can turn off at anytime. Also it would make world chat more fun when people get ganked.

[Anjou]

War mode should be activated only when in contested or hostile territories.

[Jesterjacks]

I still don't understand why the punishment for 30% exp "SHOULD" be that you get ganked by 60s as opposed to just pvp for your level. Why is everyone agreeing to toxic behavior...

[Thol]

I agree that for now removing the XP bonus would be best. It would prevent PvErs from forcing themselves into a PvP mode they dislike. Same thing happened on retail, players only turned War Mode on for the increased PvE rewards with no interests in WPvP.

War Mode increasing honor gains sounds good to me. Also you could add rewards every 10 levels like for Slow & Steady, bonus marks of honor, PvP potions, maybe a title and tabard at lvl 60 (those rewards should not give an edge in PvE).

It's indeed sad that for most people nowadays WPvP = a 60 camping lowbies. For me instead of outlawing it entirely you should incentivize lvl 60 players to come help and kill the gankers instead, like the bounty system in retail, a ganker location is displayed on the map after they have killed too many players and killing them gives bonus PvP rewards. Could add a title for killing gankers (Justiciar, Lawman or something similar) and/or maybe Stormwind guard or Orgrimmar guard cosmetic armor set.

City raids should be incentivized as well imo, with a weekly or monthly quest for example. Civilians NPCs giving dishonor should be made invincible to avoid dishonor gains.

My best Vanilla memories are from WPvP, Southshore vs Tarren Mill, fight for control of Nesingwary camp, Crossroads vs Astranaar, skirmishes between raids in Blackrock and Eastern Plaguelands. I played both RP-PvE and RP-PvP servers during Vanilla and even on a PvE server WPvP happened a lot, it was easy to get flagged, I think this was by design, for me Vanilla without any WPvP is not Vanilla.

Roleplayers and PvPers usually don't mix, like oil and vinegar. PvPers see Roleplayers as easy marks and love griefing and making fun of them, Roleplayers in turn think every PvPer is a mindless beast. For me WPvPing is a pure form of Roleplay, battling side by side with an Orc/Human while you know one of you could turn on the other at any time, it's exciting. The new cross faction features opens up for even more interesting RP-PvP imo.

[Adunai]

I still don't understand why the punishment for 30% exp "SHOULD" be that you get ganked by 60s as opposed to just pvp for your level. Why is everyone agreeing to toxic behavior...

Define "your level". I'd think, implementing a level range would take too much work, no idea whether it's possible. But I would be all for making only those attackable who differ from the attacker by 10 levels in either direction - e.g., a lvl 54 can attack lvl 44 and be attacked by a lvl 60. Would that solve your issue? Tightening it to 5 levels (49-59) would be too restrictive, imo, as people can venture into zones of higher level, and can also help higher-level people in PvP - would be awkward if you couldn't attack them.

For me instead of outlawing it entirely you should incentivize lvl 60 players to come help and kill the gankers instead, like the bounty system in retail, a ganker location is displayed on the map after they have killed too many players and killing them gives bonus PvP rewards. [...]

City raids should be incentivized as well imo, with a weekly or monthly quest for example. Civilians NPCs giving dishonor should be made invincible to avoid dishonor gains.

This 100%!

[Tenant]

I still don't understand why the punishment for 30% exp "SHOULD" be that you get ganked by 60s as opposed to just pvp for your level. Why is everyone agreeing to toxic behavior...

It's not punishment. It's the other way around. You get 30% more xp to compensate for the time spent ghost walking.

[Ghola]

the majority of griefers I see in crossroads are not warmode at all, rather they flag pvp, kill a lowbie, get killed by 60s, then wait to unflag when dead and repeat. And a lot of these players have been around far before class changes

[Gantulga]

the majority of griefers I see in crossroads are not warmode at all, rather they flag pvp, kill a lowbie, get killed by 60s, then wait to unflag when dead and repeat. And a lot of these players have been around far before class changes

Being able to easily flag and unflag is the true abuse case indeed.

[Ghola]

the majority of griefers I see in crossroads are not warmode at all, rather they flag pvp, kill a lowbie, get killed by 60s, then wait to unflag when dead and repeat. And a lot of these players have been around far before class changes

Being able to easily flag and unflag is the true abuse case indeed.

if it were a pvp server I could camp them until they leave, if you flag up in enemy territory you shouldn't be able to unflag until you leave

[Jesterjacks]

Another day where I died 4 times to lvl 60s and had 0 fights with people my level. Today I disabled warmode. This is BS...

[Venytas]

I lost more time due to warmode than gaining it. The warmodes 30% are there so people are encouraged to take it and not to fall to far behind while leveling, and let me say something being able to do open world PvP can be RP too, you know, the lore where horde and alliance are not really friends.

My suggestion would be to be able to turn it on and off as you please, maybe with a 1h - 2h CD so you cant just chicken out if you get punished for griefing lowies.

[Tenant]

I lost more time due to warmode than gaining it. The warmodes 30% are there so people are encouraged to take it and not to fall to far behind while leveling, and let me say something being able to do open world PvP can be RP too, you know, the lore where horde and alliance are not really friends.

My suggestion would be to be able to turn it on and off as you please, maybe with a 1h - 2h CD so you cant just chicken out if you get punished for griefing lowies.

- Warmode is not for saving your time, not sure why'd you expect it to do that.
- You can turn on and off pvp flag as you please, without warmode.

[Dannyp19921]

The only real problem with Warmode/Open World PvP the way I see it, is that high levels can attack and kill players that are "grey", which doesn't give any honor points. They could make a system where it's impossible to attack low level players. Or, maybe more interesting; if you kill low-levels, you get de-buffs, lose honor points and get a bounty on your head. Make some RP out of it! Now 60's of your own faction has an incentive to come and protect you, as killing the enemy player can give lots of honor, some gold and materials. Something of that sort.

[Feomatar]

Op is right. War mode = 5-10% bonus honor.

[Venytas]

The only real problem with Warmode/Open World PvP the way I see it, is that high levels can attack and kill players that are "grey", which doesn't give any honor points. They could make a system where it's impossible to attack low level players. Or, maybe more interesting; if you kill low-levels, you get de-buffs, lose honor points and get a bounty on your head. Make some RP out of it! Now 60's of your own faction has an incentive to come and protect you, as killing the enemy player can give lots of honor, some gold and materials. Something of that sort.

the bounty system is a really good idea and maybe even a "karma" system.

[Xfraz]

I think the fix is simple. War mode no longer gives 30% increased xp. Instead gives increased honor from WPvP kills. And for griefing simply punish people who get to many dhks and killing grey players. There is many ways to go about punishing people but I like the idea of losing rep or to a more extreme becoming outcast from your faction and reliant on neutral hubs like BB.

[Thol]

Yes using the existing dishonorable ranks and ultimately turning a ganker against his own faction would be cool.

Also HC characters have to be made immune to PvP flagging (can't be attacked by players, can't attack other players, can't buff or heal a flagged player) otherwise I fear WPvP will end up removed. Every day on the discord I see HC players who got tricked into flagging asking for the removal of WPvP. It would reduce the game masters work load too.

[Drezzy95]

Op is right. War mode = 5-10% bonus honor.

* 30% all experience gains.
* 5-10% bonus honor.
* 5-10% bonus reputation.

[Gnomoerectus]

Removing the 30% exp bonus from Warmode is only a solution in the sense that nobody would ever use it again.

Personally, even though I had Warmode on more often than not when I played retail (for those who don't know turning warmode on flagged you for PvP and phased you so you would only play with other warmode users) I keep it off on this server both because I have little interest in the bonus exp and because I want to be able to stay afk under a tent without having to check if I'm dead every 30 seconds.

I don't see why people who don't like the thought of being ganked can't do the same.
If have no impulse control and buy the glyph despite knowing you can't deal with the diwnsides yoy only have yourself to blame.

If you want to reduce ganking there's a simple solution, make enabling Warmode the only way to attack other players outside of a Battleground. That way level 60s who want to gank lowbies have to commit to being permanently flagged and gankers can't escape being corpse-camped by waiting to get unflagged. Also make it so that dishonorable kills also automatically enable Warmode, so that people can't just kill questgivers while being protected by this new warmode rule.

[Thol]

If no one uses War Mode after the PvE bonus is gone then so be it, it would mean they had no interest in WPvP in the first place.

[Alovander]

I can't even describe how annoying warmode is for me, pve player with slow and steady mode. I literally died like 10 times by accidently clicking on player whos on top of npc with pvp active in both booty bay and tanaris. Im losing xp with each click and i don't want pvp at any cost, can something prevent from accidently clicking other players if i dont have pvp?

[Thol]

Not sure, I know there's a macro to prevent buffing flagged players. You can also make a macro to select NPCs without clicking on them.

Fyi accidental flagging was always thing on vanilla PvE servers, it's not something Turtle WoW created. You got flagged by buffing or healing a flagged player, attacking an enemy player, also if another enemy player stood in your AoE skills. Removing this would be a mistake imo, because PVE server does not mean no wPvP, it means PvP is opt-in, an unflagged character should be able to chose to take part in a PvP battle if they wish or walk away.

[Philanthropy]

from my experiences so far, i'd restrict war-mode pvp to within a certain level range of your char like many people suggested and many servers have done in the past. i'd also nerf the exp bonus if necessary as tents and grey quest exp already make leveling trivial. i'd even forcefully disable people's war-mode permanently if they're caught camping areas 24/7 on twinked out alts as that defeats the spirit of war-mode.

[Thol]

Other servers already implemented level restricted PvP? I thought it would be complicated to do. Could be a solution But this would go against what Vanilla was, WPvP wasn't designed to be fair, it was designed to create emergent gameplay. You get ganked by a 60, your guildies shows up, an all out guild war ensues, world feels alive, you feel the war brewing between the Horde and the Alliance. Your proposal would shackle this sandbox feeling. Imo it would be better to incentivize 60 players to come help lowbies getting ganked instead. Expanding gameplay instead of restricting it.

My suggestion was to copy retail bounty system by showing the ganker location on the map and killing them would give a significant honor bonus. Just need to find a way to prevent exploiting it.

Someone else suggested to build upon the current dishonor ranks and make a ganker ultimately turn hostile to his own faction as well. Which would be pretty cool imo.

From what I understand those twinks don't even use War Mode, they unflag if a 60 shows up. Would need to find a way to counter this as well, like increasing the unflag timer by 5min for each player kill.

I feel like currently we have PvErs (not meaning it to be derogatory, I just mean players with no interests in PvP, which is perfectly fine, PvP can be toxic and I understand not wanting any part of it) taking War Mode for the XP bonus, getting ganked, and then asking for the removal of WPvP as a whole. And I totally agree Griefing != WPvP, I'm in favor of the rules against griefing.

[Dazyduke]

I've played on Turtle since 2019 and loved it. The only PvE Vanilla server and it was adding some cute additions that weren't ruining the Vanilla experience.
Well, fast forward 3 years, I believe the server is more looking after gaining more people rather than keeping the community it had built over the years (I will not be counting the many things already discussed here and on many other topics in the forum).

The easiest solution here would be, Turtle staff, just simply add "PvP" and maybe keep the PvE/RP as additions to it. You want to have all gameplay types. I get that.
But keep in mind, you cannot make everyone happy. People like me and others posting here, are gone or will be gone soon, because of the many changes introduced that are ruining the gameplay we like.

Happy playing to everyone still around.

[Jongyi]

I've played on Turtle since 2019 and loved it. The only PvE Vanilla server and it was adding some cute additions that weren't ruining the Vanilla experience.
Well, fast forward 3 years, I believe the server is more looking after gaining more people rather than keeping the community it had built over the years (I will not be counting the many things already discussed here and on many other topics in the forum).

The easiest solution here would be, Turtle staff, just simply add "PvP" and maybe keep the PvE/RP as additions to it. You want to have all gameplay types. I get that.
But keep in mind, you cannot make everyone happy. People like me and others posting here, are gone or will be gone soon, because of the many changes introduced that are ruining the gameplay we like.

Happy playing to everyone still around.

So loyal RP, PVE players are being punished for their loyalty. That hurt on a different level

[Hubertus]

Back in the old days we would call for our lvl 60 allies when we got ganked in the Barrens. When the cavalry would arrive it was epic and it became real PvP.

I think the level restriction on PvP is a modern and good approach, but what I describe above has much more flair and player interaction.

[Imonobor]

I think there should be some bonus for choosing warmode at level 60. Maybe increase reputation gain, at least with your faction's capital cities to make that mount/gear rep grind a little bit easier?

Would also give people at 60 a reason to turn on warmode and have more of the good ol' world pvp at max level.

But yeah I think it should be restricted to your level +-10. Maybe bring back dishonorable kills? :D

Edit: Oops that was a huge necro. Sorry, didn't check the date

[Element19090]

You are supposed to enjoy the leveling experience on Turtle WoW!

If you take the Warmode you get 30% extra EXP - this is not a reward - it's to give a little balance to time lost due to this. Pick it if you want to PvP and/or the thrill of danger around (nearly) every corner. Don't pick it for the EXP.

Turtle mode is if you really like Leveling and want to do all the quests without stopping exp gain every few level. The server has enough custom quests to get you from 1-50 (maybe 60?) without grinding mobs on slow (turtle) mode.

If you want to level fast without getting ganked I would suggest you look into the survivalist profession. You can get full rested in about 30min with enough tents stacked which is way better than 30% exp gain with the 'downsides' of PvP.

Wait....does the 30% buff not stack on top of the rested exp?