PVP/PVE

Shagwell
Posts: 9

PVP/PVE

Post by Shagwell » Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:44 pm

Theres a problem on the server right now I feel.

Im running WARMODE, pvp flag all the time right.
I have encountered this several times now, that non-flagged players, they just see you on low health, or that you are way lower level, then they flag and kill you. As they can choose to flag whenever they want, wich is a dogshit mechanic if you ask me.
They always get the advantage when you cant attack them.

So to the suggestion to make the server more playable:

Force them to flag in major cities, they shouldnt have the option to flag when they want, or else whats the purpose, just make it a full pve andy server.

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Jolikmc
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Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Jolikmc » Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:14 pm

I assume by "major cities", you probably mean anywhere there's a flight path or a lot of vendors? As it stands, on top of city guards going for them, the capital cities do flag players of the opposing faction for PvP. There are also guards scooting around most places that are "city-like".

That aside, I can't say that I'm sympathetic to your plight. Online gaming, being what it is, there's bound to be some rowdy honorless players who have a giggle whenever they pick on players well below their level / skill, even on a server like this. As going War Mode is just as optional as typing "/pvp", it's kind of up to the player to decide if it's worth it or not.

Now, that aside, bonus XP for going PvP on is definitely confusing trade-off. It, basically, paints perma-PvP as a "debuff", much like Slow and Steady removes 10% of XP on death or Exhaustion disables resting XP. There's a few threads about it, but so far… like the mighty namesake of the server… I don't think the devs are budging.
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Shagwell
Posts: 9

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Shagwell » Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:54 pm

Jolikmc wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:14 pm
I assume by "major cities", you probably mean anywhere there's a flight path or a lot of vendors? As it stands, on top of city guards going for them, the capital cities do flag players of the opposing faction for PvP. There are also guards scooting around most places that are "city-like".

That aside, I can't say that I'm sympathetic to your plight. Online gaming, being what it is, there's bound to be some rowdy honorless players who have a giggle whenever they pick on players well below their level / skill, even on a server like this. As going War Mode is just as optional as typing "/pvp", it's kind of up to the player to decide if it's worth it or not.

Now, that aside, bonus XP for going PvP on is definitely confusing trade-off. It, basically, paints perma-PvP as a "debuff", much like Slow and Steady removes 10% of XP on death or Exhaustion disables resting XP. There's a few threads about it, but so far… like the mighty namesake of the server… I don't think the devs are budging.
By major cities I do mean capitals, as Stormwind, Orgrimmar, UC and on it goes.
Its just braindead that you can activate pvp flag anywhere in the world, whats the purpose of having a pvp flag at all at that point.
They just sit and wait til ur low health, or they outlevel you by insane numbers to toggle their "pvp" and gank.
I wouldnt be pissed if the guy(s) in question had pvp flag when they come and gank, thats life at that point, and what i expect.
But to flag on demand anywhere is just retarded, then they can choose when and if from a portable location.
And the guy(s) running pvp flag who wanna pvp will never have a chance, as they cant engage.
So for them to activate in major cities, and go the world pvp by all means, thats what you expect, but stand next to you, wait til ur low health, flag, gank
no fun in that. Only frustration

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Kazgrim
Posts: 359

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Kazgrim » Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:39 pm

Thats the risk you take for the increased xp buff.
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Shagwell
Posts: 9

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Shagwell » Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:50 pm

Kazgrim wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:39 pm
Thats the risk you take for the increased xp buff.
Like i said, i wouldnt mind if they were pvp flagged when they came ganking, but i assume that went past ur shrimp brain

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Reploidrocsa
Posts: 50

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Reploidrocsa » Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:29 pm

Kazgrim wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:39 pm
Thats the risk you take for the increased xp buff.
+1

Turn off warmode if this happens too often

Shagwell
Posts: 9

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Shagwell » Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:46 pm

Reploidrocsa wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:29 pm
Kazgrim wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:39 pm
Thats the risk you take for the increased xp buff.
+1

Turn off warmode if this happens too often
didnt ask

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Redmagejoe
Posts: 160

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Redmagejoe » Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:30 am

Shagwell wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:46 pm
didnt ask
And no one cares if you did or didn't. The solution lies in your hands, not those of the developers or the community. It's easier to walk around a lake than to ask the lake to move for you.

As people have said, it's opt-in PvP. That doesn't mean it has to be "fair" or "balanced". If you opt-in to be permanently flagged, you are implicitly agreeing to all of the upsides and downsides that come with that. There is no code, rule, or protocol anywhere that states that people have to follow YOUR rules of engagement. I agree that it's shitty if people do that, and I wouldn't do that myself, but at the same time demanding that the PvP system become more prohibitive or restrictive when it's already difficult to find world PvP would essentially make it near non-existent. Further, that only gives more security to warmode players, when it's meant to be a RISK.

Yes, getting EXP in return is kind of a stupid implementation of a permanent PvP flag, but that's a debate for another day. The point is, it's a risky state to be in, and you accept those risks. If you don't like the risks, turn PvP off. If you don't want to do that, then don't ask other people to stop being shitty (good luck with fixing humanity in a WoW server) or to curb their gameplay. Just roll with the punches and hope for the best. The choice is literally yours.
Shagwell wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:50 pm
Like i said, i wouldnt mind if they were pvp flagged when they came ganking, but i assume that went past ur shrimp brain
But since it doesn't look like you're looking for feedback and just want to throw a tantrum with this attitude you're putting on display, I don't imagine you're going to bother reading what I have to say. If you want to act like a petulant child, don't expect anyone to be sympathetic to your plight.
Last edited by Redmagejoe on Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:59 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Jambiya
Posts: 36

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Jambiya » Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:44 am

Vanilla wow doesn't have much in enacting real consequence for excessive greifing/dishonorable kills. Until the devs or community decide to place such a thing, them's the breaks.

Shameless plug here (first section): viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2546

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Jolikmc
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Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Jolikmc » Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:29 am

Now, I do want to take a second to point something out, Shagwell. I know it seems like we're ganging up on you. Not one person here has straight up said "Yes, change it". But, if you read the posts, it's pretty clear that most of us agree with you that the PvP situation on this PvE stinks on ice. War Mode doesn't make a whole lot of sense in terms of risk / reward and no one likes being camped / stalked by opportunistic players while just trying to play the game.

The thing is, as most of us have also pointed out… PvP on a PvE server, such as this, is always optional.

I imagine that players are always welcome to air grievances and/or just outright complain about game mechanics or server-specific applications. Why else would the forums have sections specific for that, otherwise?
And, you are absolutely right: the whole PvP thing is senseless and frustration. However, if the game stops being fun because of something you, the player, has done with their settings or, in this case, a Challenge Glyph… then it makes the most sense to leave it up to you, the player, do something about it. ):

Hopefully, something will be done with War Mode in the future. But, for now? It's just, you know, an oddity of a Challenge Glyph.
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Fizzles
Posts: 24

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Fizzles » Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:06 am

Shagwell wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:46 pm
Reploidrocsa wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:29 pm
Kazgrim wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:39 pm
Thats the risk you take for the increased xp buff.
+1

Turn off warmode if this happens too often
didnt ask

Just turn it off if you can’t handle it

Shagwell
Posts: 9

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Shagwell » Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:13 am

Redmagejoe wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:30 am
Shagwell wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:46 pm
didnt ask
And no one cares if you did or didn't. The solution lies in your hands, not those of the developers or the community. It's easier to walk around a lake than to ask the lake to move for you.

As people have said, it's opt-in PvP. That doesn't mean it has to be "fair" or "balanced". If you opt-in to be permanently flagged, you are implicitly agreeing to all of the upsides and downsides that come with that. There is no code, rule, or protocol anywhere that states that people have to follow YOUR rules of engagement. I agree that it's shitty if people do that, and I wouldn't do that myself, but at the same time demanding that the PvP system become more prohibitive or restrictive when it's already difficult to find world PvP would essentially make it near non-existent. Further, that only gives more security to warmode players, when it's meant to be a RISK.

Yes, getting EXP in return is kind of a stupid implementation of a permanent PvP flag, but that's a debate for another day. The point is, it's a risky state to be in, and you accept those risks. If you don't like the risks, turn PvP off. If you don't want to do that, then don't ask other people to stop being shitty (good luck with fixing humanity in a WoW server) or to curb their gameplay. Just roll with the punches and hope for the best. The choice is literally yours.
Shagwell wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:50 pm
Like i said, i wouldnt mind if they were pvp flagged when they came ganking, but i assume that went past ur shrimp brain
But since it doesn't look like you're looking for feedback and just want to throw a tantrum with this attitude you're putting on display, I don't imagine you're going to bother reading what I have to say. If you want to act like a petulant child, don't expect anyone to be sympathetic to your plight.
You walk around your lake, I go to the suggestion forum and try to solve the problem instead.
Its not fair that pve andys can flag on demand, thats the issue. Did you even read? I dont care if people gank lowbies, or gank at all. I care that they can flag on demand and gank, only on opporunity, its easily solvable.
I want the pvp. But the way its designed so pve andys can just toggle on demand, makes pve superior to using a pvp tag. I dont care about the xp gain of the pvp tag either.

You are correct, im not looking for feedback, im here posting in the suggestion forum a solid suggestion that would make pvp on the server more fun, as right now pve andyx13 can just toggle on demand and always have the advantage.
And since you are going with that i have a bad attitude, thats not my intent, but when you get low quality troll responses they get the expected response.
They did not bother reading whats being said, and only go in with the iq-of-a-monkey response
UUH UU HAVE PEE VEE PEE TAG U PROBLEM OK NICE HE HE.

As you can clearly see they didnt bother reading the post, they just posted to post, i dont respect troll forum lurkers.
Criticize by all means, but no monkey shit like example above.

Shagwell
Posts: 9

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Shagwell » Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:24 am

Jolikmc wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:29 am
Now, I do want to take a second to point something out, Shagwell. I know it seems like we're ganging up on you. Not one person here has straight up said "Yes, change it". But, if you read the posts, it's pretty clear that most of us agree with you that the PvP situation on this PvE stinks on ice. War Mode doesn't make a whole lot of sense in terms of risk / reward and no one likes being camped / stalked by opportunistic players while just trying to play the game.

The thing is, as most of us have also pointed out… PvP on a PvE server, such as this, is always optional.

I imagine that players are always welcome to air grievances and/or just outright complain about game mechanics or server-specific applications. Why else would the forums have sections specific for that, otherwise?
And, you are absolutely right: the whole PvP thing is senseless and frustration. However, if the game stops being fun because of something you, the player, has done with their settings or, in this case, a Challenge Glyph… then it makes the most sense to leave it up to you, the player, do something about it. ):

Hopefully, something will be done with War Mode in the future. But, for now? It's just, you know, an oddity of a Challenge Glyph.
You have been the only one posting responses here thats not a troll, so thank you.

Na its all good, i can handle the forum trolls.
Its the opporunistic bit im here trying to fix. I want the pvp, i dont want pve andys to be able to toggle on demand tho.
If they can only flag in a major city, then its all fun in games.
If they removed the xp buff, i would still have the pvp tag on, i dont use it for the benefits. I simply just want pvp, but people flagging on demand/situational from anywhere just makes this impossible.

This would make pvp optional, if they set out to go pvp they can flag in a city and roam the world right? Its not preventing anything. The only thing this solution im suggesting would do, is force people to flag in advance, and not when they see a low health player, or a lowlevel whatever.

Shagwell
Posts: 9

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Shagwell » Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:25 am

Fizzles wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:06 am
Shagwell wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:46 pm
Reploidrocsa wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:29 pm


+1

Turn off warmode if this happens too often
didnt ask

Just turn it off if you can’t handle it
Quality post

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Razzz
Posts: 15
Location: USA

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Razzz » Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:11 pm

I'm a bit confused here to be honest...you're upset that pve players can flag and attack you while you're on low hp?
But you don't like that they flagged themselves at all?
Are you upset that they weren't flagged before they attacked you making it so they had the opening shot and therefore an advantage?
But if you had low hp then why would you attack them first since you'd still have a major disadvantage?
And you want them to ALWAYS be flagged in cities, the place where most people go to do anything BUT fight? (Yes I know it still happens)

And this whole, "Didn't ask" attitude about comments?
That's...that's the point of posting threads in this forum is to receive feedback from the community.
The people giving feedback weren't being rude or trolling unless you count some of the snark that came up after you were being rude yourself.
MEH.

Shagwell
Posts: 9

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Shagwell » Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:29 pm

Razzz wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:11 pm
I'm a bit confused here to be honest...you're upset that pve players can flag and attack you while you're on low hp?
But you don't like that they flagged themselves at all?
Are you upset that they weren't flagged before they attacked you making it so they had the opening shot and therefore an advantage?
But if you had low hp then why would you attack them first since you'd still have a major disadvantage?
And you want them to ALWAYS be flagged in cities, the place where most people go to do anything BUT fight? (Yes I know it still happens)

And this whole, "Didn't ask" attitude about comments?
That's...that's the point of posting threads in this forum is to receive feedback from the community.
The people giving feedback weren't being rude or trolling unless you count some of the snark that came up after you were being rude yourself.
No worries, can clear it up for you.
Im here suggesting that I want you to be able to flag for pvp from major cities (capitals) and not from anywhere in the world.
This would solve the issue of people being manginas, and only flag themselves to gank lowlevel/low health pvp flagged people.
Why would i attack them? Well, its all situational right, I would probably still die, but the fact that people can pvp flag on demand makes the game shit, like i have stated above, I dont care if they came pvp flagged already and just straight ganked. But the fact that they can wait, flag on demand is pathetic.
They would probably still have the advantage, sure, but atleast then they cant hide in a pve-andy tag, and I would have the opportunity of revenge. Its not about one instance, im here suggesting that you activate pvp in capitals, or stay pve andy.
I type again: I want you to be able to activate your PVP tag in major cities, not from anywhere, this would solve the problem.
You have not understood what i have been typing above, hope this helps clearing it up.

About the didnt ask:
I dont respect monkeys, or forum trolls.
That was clearly people who didnt read, or didnt agree with my suggestion,it was mos def trolling. And they lowball with low iq post, I dont discriminate, toss shit, i return the favour.

hope my clearing it up helped! if not you can post again, or whisprer me ingame and ill try help ya bud!

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Razzz
Posts: 15
Location: USA

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Razzz » Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:53 pm

Oh, I understand now!
Sorry about that, I have derp moments when it comes to understanding others.
And I recall that's something retail does with their version of war mode.
Considering how flagging works in these versions of WoW that'd be a pretty big thing to change, wouldn't it?
For every event where a player would find themselves flagged out in the world (fighting certain npc and entering certain territories for examples), should something different happen?
MEH.

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Redmagejoe
Posts: 160

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Redmagejoe » Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:56 pm

Neither of the people who responded to you were trolling, and certainly don't deserve to be labeled the way you have. You said yourself that because they didn't agree with you, you decided to treat them like shit. Your attitude is terrible, and this "suggestion" thread is clearly an airing of grievances that can have 0 constructive discussion had about it.

Your condescending attitude coupled with your sense of entitlement marks you as one of the most insufferable people yet encountered in this community, which is only worse for your case.
Last edited by Redmagejoe on Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Shagwell
Posts: 9

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Shagwell » Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:15 pm

Redmagejoe wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:56 pm
Neither of the people who responded to you were trolling, and certainly don't deserve to be labeled the way you have. You said yourself that because they didn't agree with you, you decided to treat them like shit. Your attitude is terrible, and this "suggestion" thread is clearly an airing of grievances that can have 0 constructive discussion had about it.

Your condescending attitude coupled with your sense of entitlement marks you as one of the most insufferable people yet encountered in this community, which is only worse for you.
just lmao

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Coun
Posts: 21

Re: PVP/PVE

Post by Coun » Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:29 pm

Keep it civil.

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