Warmode is Broken. Fix it with Bounty System.

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Turtlemonster
Posts: 7

Warmode is Broken. Fix it with Bounty System.

Post by Turtlemonster » Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:43 pm

Warmode at present only encourages griefing lowbies and has none of the positives of PvP (frequent WPvP, hunting down and killing guys who kill lowbies, etc)

I am a longtime PvP player, and issues with Warmode are why I ultimately decided not to play on TurtleWoW.

Here's my proposal for a fix: a Bounty System (similar to what is already in for the top PvP player)

As a player kills grey players or grey civilians, he gets a bounty. The more greys he kills, the higher his bounty. If a player then kills a player with a bounty, then he is awarded that player's total bounty.

Further, there should be a series of titles awarded. There is a chain of "Dishonorable" titles for killing lowbies, so there should be an opposite chain of "bounty hunter" titles for killing dishonorable players.

Turtlemonster
Posts: 7

Re: Warmode is Broken. Fix it with Bounty System.

Post by Turtlemonster » Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:05 pm

Here's a bit more detailed explanation for my reasoning.

In old PvP WoW, there are of course players who kill much lower characters. It is extremely annoying and personally, I really hate players who do such things, even if they are on my same side.

This shit enrages me.

However, on PvP servers, there are lots of people like me. If I got ganked, I would tell guildies or the players at large about this. We'd go out and hunt down this SOB and kill him over and over.

The best thing was when you spawn camped him so many times he'd log off in frustration.

As annoying as griefers are, killing them and making their lives miserable is one hell of a cathartic experience.

Here's the thing though. Upon reflection, this actually rarely happened. You'd have World PvP of course, sometimes a guy would be a bit higher level than you, but rarely a 60 clearing out lowbies.

The reason of course was because guys like me would go after such players. If they became known for killing lowbies, EVERYONE would attack them ALL the time and it would make WoW unplayable for them.

So there was a self policing aspect to this rancid behavior. It was allowed, but other players would stop you if you got too out of hand.

Not so with turtle wow.

Because it is mainly a PvE server, and a low pop one at that, there are not players on standby and available to go hunt down griefers. Because of the warmode system, it actually encourages players to be as annoying as possible and kill people at the most inconvenient spot. Because warmode is optional, it encourages players to abuse the system and say "Warmode is optional" -- when warmode is meant to encourage same-level pvp, not one shotting lowbies. The "Warmode is optional" is cover for seriously toxic behavior that should be punished.

As it is though Warmode has only the worst parts of PvP and none of the positives. It actively encourages griefing and gives the excuse of "Warmode is optional". Well, there should be incentives to go after people who abuse the system like that.

That's why I propose a bounty system. It has nice RP potential. It gives incentive for mainly PvE players to do some WPvP. And another set of titles -- this time for GOOD behavior -- would make the game even better.

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Jolikmc
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Re: Warmode is Broken. Fix it with Bounty System.

Post by Jolikmc » Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:43 pm

Hello. I would like to direction your attention to this post by Jambiya:
Community -> Suggestions -> Fugitive Mode & Dishonorable Consequence

I think some of the stuff he's talked about would be useful to your ideas… and vice-versa! (:
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Redmagejoe
Posts: 153

Re: Warmode is Broken. Fix it with Bounty System.

Post by Redmagejoe » Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:52 pm

While I agree that griefing and killing low level players is not only shitty but is, in my opinion, a waste of time and offers no benefit if you don't have some sort of mental illness that gives you a fetishistic thrill for accomplishing the equivalent of killing a level 1 wolf in Northshire Abbey while also frustrating another human being... I am going to have to retort to your sweeping statement that "warmode is a choice" is only used as a battle cry for toxicity.

I champion that statement because what it represents is the ultimate accountability for the outcome that gets people upset. Your logic about warmode is flawed, that it is "intended for low level PvP", because if you ask the majority of warmode players, they do not want PvP; they are only in it for the 30% experience bonus. This, in my opinion, is why the implementation of warmode as it is is flawed. It offers a PvE benefit to players who otherwise have 0 interest and even an aversion to PvP.

Ultimately, this leads to them complaining and growing frustrated when they are ganked, even if it's by players of the same level, and a very compelling argument could be made for the toxicity that exists among these entitled players who shirk all accountability. What "warmode is a choice" means is that when you choose it, you are 100% responsible for any PvP deaths you incur. It is an opt-in PvP server, which means no matter how shitty and toxic a ganker is, no matter how inconvenient the PvP is, no matter how much I can fully agree with you that the ganker is a piece of shit if they're not getting an Honor Kill out of it, a warmode player's choice is the first line of defense. If you are not flagged PvP, you cannot be ganked. That's the end of the story.

I understand the points people make about what gankers are doing, and I totally think dishonorable killing is symptomatic of some sort of mental illness, but it doesn't change the fact that it's your fault if you get ganked. People who are in it just for the 30% experience bonus will argue that they "need that bonus" because "leveling is too slow" on a server that has frequent tent placements and a number of boons that already make the low level experience more comfortable. Anyone who insists on taking the 30% bonus because they're impatient and need to speedrun to 60 just so they can burn out on content and quit the game faster, and then complains that they're suffering the consequences of the choice they made like someone who agrees to a Terms of Service they never read and then scream when they violate the ToS... Well, I have 0 sympathy for them.

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Pistol
Posts: 121

Re: Warmode is Broken. Fix it with Bounty System.

Post by Pistol » Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:31 pm

My personal issue with a bounty system is that it would almost certainly encourage griefing. If you're the kind of player to gank greys often , you'd probably enjoy having a bounty board say you're worth increasingly high amounts of gold.
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Turtlemonster
Posts: 7

Re: Warmode is Broken. Fix it with Bounty System.

Post by Turtlemonster » Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:20 pm

All good points guys.

It seems like it is best for either everyone to be PvP all the time (except cities and starting zones) or PvE all the time. Like I said in my experience on high pop PvP servers, there actually was not that much griefing (or at least, it never lasted long) because other players would come in quickly to attack them.

Perhaps the reward for Warmode should not xp but rather access to items, titles, something like that. Similar to turtle and hardcore modes. After all, it is turtlewow, so increased xp gain doesn't quite fit. That way the only people that join are doing it for pvp.

Turtlemonster
Posts: 7

Re: Warmode is Broken. Fix it with Bounty System.

Post by Turtlemonster » Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:26 pm

Jolikmc wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:43 pm
Hello. I would like to direction your attention to this post by Jambiya:
Community -> Suggestions -> Fugitive Mode & Dishonorable Consequence

I think some of the stuff he's talked about would be useful to your ideas… and vice-versa! (:
Yeah I like those suggestions. I will start posting over there now.

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