6+ Classes for a Race

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Bayanni
Posts: 40

Re: 6+ Classes for a Race

Post by Bayanni » Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:07 pm

Allwynd01 wrote:
Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:57 pm
Kanto123 wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:20 am
Gheor wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:09 am
No.
No to the playable Worgen or no to the Italian Mafia Don?

*gabagool intensifies*
I'm not versed on Gilneas' history and what happened there.

I tend to consider (and maybe I'm wrong for it) that everything the developers did for WoW after TBC is retconning. Sure, some story is real, but I think a lot of decisions are based on them just wanting to put stuff in the game, kinda like Forsaken Priest in Vanilla - this should have not been like this or all of their spells should have been Shadow versions of actual Priest Spells and they should not be Healers and pure DPS instead, but there were probably technical limitations as to why this never happened.

So for Gilneas, I'm not sure when were the people there cursed to be werewolves and have they remained loyal to the Alliance or the rest of humanity or not so it's something tough to decide.

Other than that, I think most of the ideas about races and classes after Vanilla re bad ideas/examples for things that can be implemented backwards into Turtle WoW. Instead, I think brand new ideas or unused concepts should be the forefront of discussions.
Most of Gilneas lore you'll find is from Cata and post-cata content, so essentially retcons. We do know they are involved with worgen in vanilla due to the proximity of SFK to the gate, but then again worgen also appear in ashenvale and duskwood, so directly linking the two might be a bit of a stretch even if the lore says Gilneas caused the worgen curse. Of course, the cata content links the worgen curse with "Elune's Scythe", so the fact that the only other places worgen appear is in zones with emerald dream portals might have something to do with it.

We know the name of the leader didn't change, that the city sealed itself from the outside world entirely during WC3 until cata (save an expedition that went with Janna to Kalimdor), and that they didn't do much of anything and were minor players in the politics and wars of the era. It's hard to say if their link to not-werewolves was thought of before cata from what I know, but if it was I would prefer just another human faction with no playable worgen. We already have enough furries with the tauren.

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Gheor
Posts: 272

Re: 6+ Classes for a Race

Post by Gheor » Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:07 am

Bayanni wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:07 pm
Allwynd01 wrote:
Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:57 pm
Kanto123 wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:20 am


No to the playable Worgen or no to the Italian Mafia Don?

*gabagool intensifies*
I'm not versed on Gilneas' history and what happened there.

I tend to consider (and maybe I'm wrong for it) that everything the developers did for WoW after TBC is retconning. Sure, some story is real, but I think a lot of decisions are based on them just wanting to put stuff in the game, kinda like Forsaken Priest in Vanilla - this should have not been like this or all of their spells should have been Shadow versions of actual Priest Spells and they should not be Healers and pure DPS instead, but there were probably technical limitations as to why this never happened.

So for Gilneas, I'm not sure when were the people there cursed to be werewolves and have they remained loyal to the Alliance or the rest of humanity or not so it's something tough to decide.

Other than that, I think most of the ideas about races and classes after Vanilla re bad ideas/examples for things that can be implemented backwards into Turtle WoW. Instead, I think brand new ideas or unused concepts should be the forefront of discussions.
Most of Gilneas lore you'll find is from Cata and post-cata content, so essentially retcons. We do know they are involved with worgen in vanilla due to the proximity of SFK to the gate, but then again worgen also appear in ashenvale and duskwood, so directly linking the two might be a bit of a stretch even if the lore says Gilneas caused the worgen curse. Of course, the cata content links the worgen curse with "Elune's Scythe", so the fact that the only other places worgen appear is in zones with emerald dream portals might have something to do with it.

We know the name of the leader didn't change, that the city sealed itself from the outside world entirely during WC3 until cata (save an expedition that went with Janna to Kalimdor), and that they didn't do much of anything and were minor players in the politics and wars of the era. It's hard to say if their link to not-werewolves was thought of before cata from what I know, but if it was I would prefer just another human faction with no playable worgen. We already have enough furries with the tauren.
Agreed.

May the Wolf-Serpent slither through your walls.
A sheet of paper and a pen can give birth to many things.

Gheor

Kratos

Avaendis
Posts: 7

Re: 6+ Classes for a Race

Post by Avaendis » Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:33 pm

Bayanni wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:07 pm
We do know they are involved with worgen in vanilla due to the proximity of SFK to the gate, but then again worgen also appear in ashenvale and duskwood, so directly linking the two might be a bit of a stretch even if the lore says Gilneas caused the worgen curse. Of course, the cata content links the worgen curse with "Elune's Scythe", so the fact that the only other places worgen appear is in zones with emerald dream portals might have something to do with it.

[...] It's hard to say if their link to not-werewolves was thought of before cata from what I know, but if it was I would prefer just another human faction with no playable worgen. We already have enough furries with the tauren.
To add precision to all that, the Worgens of Ashenvale and Duskwood are "related"' in that they were both brought to Azeroth by the Scythe of Elune, and you can learn all about that in the quest that deals with all that (This long chain starts with "The Howling Vale"). The Scythe is kind of a dropped thread of Vanilla WoW, with its whereabout completely unknown, though that evil mage in Redridge Mountain is also rumoured to have had it at some point, but no tangible evidence.

The worgens in Shadowfang Keep and around it are "unrelated" in that while they are indeed the same species, they were not brought into this world by the Scythe, and Arugal found another way to summon them (We know this because the first bearer of the Scythe of Elune talks about Arugal summoning worgens before losing the Scythe).

So, all in all, we do know a fair share about the Worgen in Vanilla, though what we do know includes that they are not werewolves and come from an entirely different world.

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Galendor
Posts: 35

Re: 6+ Classes for a Race

Post by Galendor » Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:39 am

Another thing we know about worgens is https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Lords_ ... rald_Flame

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Gheor
Posts: 272

Re: 6+ Classes for a Race

Post by Gheor » Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:00 pm

Galendor wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:39 am
Another thing we know about worgens is https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Lords_ ... rald_Flame

"This article or section includes speculation, observations or opinions possibly supported by lore or by Blizzard officials. It should not be taken as representing official lore."
A sheet of paper and a pen can give birth to many things.

Gheor

Kratos

User avatar
Kanto123
Posts: 153

Re: 6+ Classes for a Race

Post by Kanto123 » Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:23 pm

Gheor wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:00 pm
Galendor wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:39 am
Another thing we know about worgens is https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Lords_ ... rald_Flame

"This article or section includes speculation, observations or opinions possibly supported by lore or by Blizzard officials. It should not be taken as representing official lore."
That might just be referring to that section at the bottom and not the entire page. On this other link referencing the same topic, the speculation section is larger and references the green dragonflght:

https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki ... rald_Flame

This second link is the older version, and so contains less confirmed information.
When I followed the second link in the references section of the wowpedia version Galendor posted it brings up a comic from 2010 that must have confirmed the emerald flame as satyrs. Seeing as to how that piece of information is post-vanilla lore, it probably isn't compatible with this server, but the notion of the war with the emerald flame should be usable because reference 1 shows Velinde's journal which is a vanilla wow item

User avatar
Bayanni
Posts: 40

Re: 6+ Classes for a Race

Post by Bayanni » Sun May 01, 2022 5:27 pm

Kanto123 wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:23 pm
Gheor wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:00 pm
Galendor wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:39 am
Another thing we know about worgens is https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Lords_ ... rald_Flame

"This article or section includes speculation, observations or opinions possibly supported by lore or by Blizzard officials. It should not be taken as representing official lore."
That might just be referring to that section at the bottom and not the entire page. On this other link referencing the same topic, the speculation section is larger and references the green dragonflght:

https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki ... rald_Flame

This second link is the older version, and so contains less confirmed information.
When I followed the second link in the references section of the wowpedia version Galendor posted it brings up a comic from 2010 that must have confirmed the emerald flame as satyrs. Seeing as to how that piece of information is post-vanilla lore, it probably isn't compatible with this server, but the notion of the war with the emerald flame should be usable because reference 1 shows Velinde's journal which is a vanilla wow item
That is a neat thought if there were future quests centered around the green dragonflight and their relation to both the emerald dream and the worgen. Could give a good plotline to lead into a future emerald dream raid.

Avaendis
Posts: 7

Re: 6+ Classes for a Race

Post by Avaendis » Sun May 01, 2022 7:22 pm

It is very unlikely that the Lords of the Emerald Flame are in any way related to the Emerald Dream, or Velinde, when she did extensive research about the Worgens, would have found something about them no doubt.

It would also have sounded rather alarming for a priestess of the moon (and the ancients she consulted) that her new servants fought the dragons, especially those most associated with Elune.

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