Night Elf Paladins

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Avaendis
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Night Elf Paladins

Post by Avaendis » Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:36 pm

Why Night Elf Paladins ?

Throughout Warcraft III and War of the Ancients, the Night Elves are shown to marry divine and martial abilities extensively, to the point that the two, except among the lowest ranks, seem completely intertwined and inseparable. Moreover, the apex of this overlap, Priestesses of the Moon, displays roles and abilities eerily similar to those of Paladins.

However, this obvious and important trait of their society almost completely vanishes from World of Warcraft because of the Priest/Warrior class dichotomy that results from not having access to the Paladin class. I will in fact show clear examples of the aforementioned overlap being actively cut and hidden in-game when the lore makes it clear it should be there.
This is why I think Night Elves should have access to it, to restore and allow players to represent this important part of their society.

For those who do not know or believe what I just said, or simply wish to know its exact extent out of curiosity, I have compiled what I consider proof of it below, referenced from Warcraft III, World of Warcraft, and War of the Ancients.

Warcraft III

In this game, “pure priestesses” simply do not exist - every single one of them is shown to practice warrior skills in one way or another, and they wear the armour and wield the weapons that go with them. Conversely, a significant part of night elf martial warriors is shown to be empowered by Elune in one way or another.

Perhaps most importantly, as one rises among the Sentinels or Sisterhood of Elune, the separation between the two becomes less and less significant, to the point that the very top of their hierarchies are in fact a single hierarchy of women belonging to and commanding both; Tyrande is the head of both organisations while lesser Priestesses of the Moon lead the Sentinels in battle and Sisterhood in their rites.

This fusion is, as far as the game shows, mirrored among the Watchers, though for a rather dumb reason - The Frozen Throne having a very lackluster manual - we don't really get much information on that, but there is strong implication that even if it is no longer the rule (It is established that in the past all Watchers, period, were from the Sisterhood, but whether their current uppermost hierarchy is made entirely of Priestesses is neither confirmed nor denied) it, in effect, seems to be the case.

Sentinels in General
Game Manual, Hunter's Hall wrote:Wood and steel are fashioned into the stout armor using established traditions and methods stretching back thousands of years, as the spirits of the Ancient Guardians are invoked and their blessings bestowed upon each completed work.
Sentinels are described as wearing steel armour (wood obviously referring to druids since they are definitely not wearing steel), blessed no less. The idea their armour is made of steel is reinforced by Moon Armor’s icon (Don’t let this icon being recycled for cloth items in WoW fool you; This is the colour of steel in Warcraft III icons, examples of steel and leather seen here), along with that of the subsequent upgrades.

Additionally, Shadowmeld, an ability available to all Sentinels (And later Watchers, but not druids) is described this way:
Game Manual, Shadowmeld wrote:Empowered by the goddess Elune, night elf warriors possess the ability to completely blend in with their surroundings [...].
Making this a (small) divine blessing from Elune to her warriors and not merely a skill.

If you doubt that explanation, remember that in a cinematic, Tyrande manages to Shadowmeld from right under the nose of several demons, including Archimonde himself, and later in the same mission, these lines are spoken:
Demons wrote:“Your shadow powers will not hide you from our sight.”
“The dawn has come. I can no longer rely upon Elune’s power to keep me hidden.”
There is also a common mention that Sentinels were initially all Priestesses, and unfortunately, as common as it is, I could not find a source, though the Warcraft III manual does state “Tyrande [...] assembled a powerful fighting force from amongst her night elf sisters. The fearless, highly trained warrior women who pledged themselves to Kalimdor’s defense became known as the Sentinels.”, which, considering the Sisterhood of Elune, is an ambiguous statement, especially when it refers to already-trained warriors.

Finally, and I will concede minorly, only - and most - Sentinels refer to the Goddess in their voicelines (And particularly Warcries, the line used when being asked to attack the enemy), which is not at all a trait shared by other units of their faction - in fact it seems completely absent from the rest of the roster.

Watchers in General
In Return of Chaos (The base game), they are presented as a very diverse group; Among their ranks are Wildkins (Supposedly favoured by Elune herself), a Keeper of the Grove (A grandchild of Elune), and obviously, night elves. Despite the importance they would gain in The Frozen Throne, they are only a very minor antagonist faction this expansion, accounting for half a mission, and their night elf models are recycled beta assets (One being a saber-less Huntress, the other the cut Assassin’s model) and a straight up human model.

Because of this, I hesitate to really comment on these models and even the portrayal at all, especially when they are somewhat contradicted by the later showing (For example, the cut Assassin’s model is by far the least armoured night elf model in the game, yet it is used for “Lesser Wardens”, when, we will get to that, later Wardens are the most armoured night elf unit). I would also note that none of these night elves speak, with every single Watcher line being spoken by Wildkins and the Keeper of the Grove, though they all speak with much authority as to what Elune wills (You can find the mission’s dialogue here).

In The Frozen Throne, however, they take the main role during the early part of the night elf campaign, and use the same roster of units as the Sentinels, plus the Warden and other units added in The Frozen Throne (though none of them are night elves). Unfortunately, it’s hard to comment beyond that because the expansion’s manual is meager in comparison to the base game, so there isn’t anything added as to how all these things relate to each-other, though it is likely their structure remains roughly the same - and some hints exist as to it, such as Naisha, Maiev's lieutenant, being obviously a Huntress.

Archer
Game Manual, Archer wrote:Archers compose the first rank of the Sentinel army. These brave warrior women are expert marksmen and use the concealing forests of Kalimdor to their advantage. Their lightning-quick ambushes are legendary, for few warriors can match the proud archers' speed and cunning.
Despite them being the lowest rank of the Sentinels and meant to be massed, each Archer is protected by plate (It is steel and visually not chainmail - and though I hesitate to rely on that too much because it does retcon quite a few things, that is also Reforged’s interpretation), though it admittedly…does not cover much, the armour proper consisting only of pauldrons, vambraces, and greaves, but also a very small breastplate and, huh, “panties” (In the more detailed campaign screen, you can see they both feature the same silver etching as the other parts, the same one featured in the second and third armour upgrades). While the skimpiness of the outfit is remembered, I would like to temper it with the fact that night elves are in general not bothered by nudity, so there is little difference to them, and in fact regarding protection in most ways, between that and wearing regular clothes.

If you keep that in mind, the Archer is not that lightly armoured considering they wear small touches of plate, but plate nonetheless, and especially their role; As their description highlights, they use concealment, ambushes, and cunning to claim victory, not brute strength.

Finally, Archers possess the Elune’s Grace ability, protecting them against ranged attacks and spells, which one could argue is only metaphorically tied to their Goddess (Though even then you’d have to explain the spell resistance), if it hadn’t been made into a Priest ability in World of Warcraft.

Huntress
Game Manual, Huntress wrote:Huntresses are the elite cadre of the Sentinel army. Drawing their strength from the moon goddess, Elune, these warrior women ride the feral Nightsaber panthers into battle. Huntresses are strong and swift, and merciless to those who would defile the sanctity of Ashenvale Forest.
As we rise among the Sentinels’ ranks, more armour is worn (See here the model with the ability to zoom in, and the final concept art it is inspired by), which makes sense considering they ride a mount and, though they are still ranged, Huntresses are a frontline unit for their sisters. They also carry shields that seem to be made of the very same steel as their armour.

Regarding their divine abilities, they are only mentioned in the game manual, in the text above, but it is in line with Priestesses of the Moon being both military leaders, and, after all, said text still exists, and I will not refrain from drawing a comparison between “drawing one’s strength from Elune” and Paladins being physically infused and strengthened by the Light. The fact they do so while being knights of sort, armoured, shielded, and mounted on ferocious steeds to defend the sanctity of their forest against invaders, is icing on the cake.

Huntresses also come to use magical glaives in The Frozen Throne, though with the previously mentioned Hunter’s Hall description, it is unclear whether that actually makes the Huntresses all that special in receiving enchanted items.

They also possess the ability to see through their owl’s eyes (“This ability enables the huntress to see through the eyes of her owl familiar”), but no origin for this ability is given, though I will obviously mention that while Hunters can use a somewhat similar ability in World of Warcraft, so do Priests.

Their voicelines (and Naisha's, Maiev’s first lieutenant, corresponding to the Huntress’ description as officers, and who uses the Huntress model) also hint at a pretty strong faith (and even an oath, echoing my point above about the sanctity of the forest), and if you think that’s at all universal among the Sentinels, I would point to the Archer’s (which never mention Elune and anything relating to the night only once) and Shandris’ (who never mentions either). And though I agree that Shandris’ lines are strangely generic in retrospect, it does show that the Huntresses were intended as particularly faithful among the Sentinels.

Priestess of the Moon
Game Manual, Priestess of the Moon wrote:The fearless leaders of the Sentinel army, the priestesses of the moon epitomize the power and grace of their race's ancient moon goddess, Elune. The priestesses, equipped with silvery, glowing armor, ride the fearless Frostsaber tigers of Winterspring into battle. Charged with the safekeeping of the night elf lands and armed with magical energy bows, the priestesses will stop at nothing to rid their ancient land of evil.
Like Tyrande who epitomizes the relationship between the religious and the martial, being at the same time the leader of the Sentinels and Sisterhood of Elune, her fellow Priestesses also lead elven warriors into battle as a rule of thumb. Past this obvious and incredibly literal proof of what I am arguing for, the in-game model and gameplay add to this.

It is first very easy to see that their armour is plate (one can easily see what was supposed to be translated into the game in this concept art), as is their mount’s, despite their preferred weapon being the bow. However, the gameplay is perhaps the most striking example of Priestesses of Elune not being comparable to their human and high elven counterparts; 2 of their abilities directly rely on their physical attacks to function, and one’s description is in fact very reminiscent of what we would consider a paladin ability:
Game Manual, Searing Arrows wrote:Calling upon the powers of the Moon Goddess Elune to imbue her arrows with searing magical energy, the priestess is able to fire deadly volleys at any foe.
And once more calling to voicelines, the Priestess’ are probably more martial than you’d expect, being those of a commander and not much a cleric - oddly enough, Tyrande’s own voicelines are not so military-inclined, though perhaps this was reserved for the custom campaign lines which obviously include many orders and encouragements to her troops, and among which are some that do remind us of her duality as a warrior and bringer of justice:
Tyrande, Campaign wrote: “The goddess is my shield, warden. Elune will grant me the strength.”
“Tyrande is a soldier; she knew the risks she took.”
“I am the justice of Elune! The goddess' wrath is infallible!”

Warden
Because of the lack of a “proper” The Frozen Throne manual, we do not have much to rely on to know what other Wardens are like as only Maiev truly is explored (though we do know others exist as some “lesser” wardens were seen in Return of Chaos, but as I said, almost opposite representation owing to Watchers using recycled models in the base game).

Before getting on to Tyrande’s superior rival, however, I would note that we actually do know that Watchers were initially all Priestesses (unlike Sentinels for whom the oft-repeated claim has no source I could find - though there could still be one), and one could easily extrapolate from this that their leaders, the Wardens, logically tending to be their most experienced members, are supposed to be at least in great part Priestesses of Elune, which makes their appearance and voicelines (which could easily fit a very vengeful paladin, by the way, with their strong emphasis on justice) hint that among them too, there is significant overlap between leadership, divine favour, and martial abilities.

As to Maiev, then, she is the most armoured night elf bar none, and we know for a fact she was a very influential Priestess of the Moon, to the point that she was for a time High Priestess. This falls in line with Tyrande and the other Priestesses’ roles as Sentinel leaders, but perhaps most interestingly, despite always having been portrayed as a warrior fighting in the thick of melee (and an effective one at that), her abilities were explained in the RPG to originate from faith, but faith in concepts and not actually Elune herself:
World of Warcraft RPG wrote:The warden's magic is drawn from conviction and belief in justice for the night elves.
This makes the Wardens close to paladins in the way they receive their powers, and Maiev, throughout the Warcraft III campaign, also speaks of sacrilege and makes an oath to avenge her fallen sisters.

World of Warcraft

In World of Warcraft, contrarily to Warcraft III - and War of the Ancients, we’ll get to that - this interweaving of the divine and martial is much, much less visible, and I would even say almost absent. The Sentinels and Sisterhood are almost entirely split and have very little if any overlap in hierarchy, core values, and ways, the former coming to represent the Warrior class (to the near-total exclusion of the Hunter class, by the way, which one could easily argue should be a big part of it), clad in heavy armour and employing melee weapons, while the latter takes the vast majority of its identity from the Priest class, wielding little if any weaponry and almost universally found in mere cloth.

This is doubly true for players who can only be one of those two radically opposed classes and are unable to represent this important aspect of night elf society that is the alliance of the two, forced to choose between the strictly caster Priest and strictly martial Warrior when Warcraft III established - and War of the Ancients will confirm - night elven society relies heavily on the two not being separate and instead being intertwined.

But let’s see just how much has been lost, for recordkeeping, but also because I want to show the actual shift the inability of players to represent this duality has forced onto the overall portrayal of night elves; It’s not that night elves do not have paladins because paladins do not fit them, it is that night elves in World of Warcraft no longer fit paladins as opposed to their other portrayals because they did not have paladins and this made Blizzard alter their society. The lore was made to mirror the gameplay instead of the opposite.

Warcraft III Equivalents
I would like to start with a brief summary of how Warcraft III Sentinel/Watcher units are represented in World of Warcraft, because I think it does highlight the result of the aforementioned shift.

Archers: Essentially gone; Though a few (very few) Sentinel NPCs use bows, none of them conform to the Archers’ aesthetic - this is not really a problem in itself.

Huntresses: Split between becoming the archetypal, lowest-rank Sentinel NPC (as a result of the aforementioned disparition of the night elf Archer), and 6 named Huntresses.

The first category - the baseline Sentinel, then, that we can see used as guards - is actually fairly faithful to the Warcraft III Huntress’ appearance, though it is obviously not supposed to represent this elite, mounted cadre, having become regular infantry, with less armoured legs, definitely much smaller glaives, and no shield (A remark that is actually true for the vast, vast majority of night elves), but in spirit they somewhat conform apart from the fact that the appearance went from representing an elite to…essentially every Sentinel ever.

The second, Huntresses proper - and thus the actual mid- if not higher-ranks of the Sentinels - consist of two distinct appearances: One with leather and a tiny bit of mail, the other with laminar plate, and both are mounted. The former are more numerous and found more extensively (but still very scarcely) than the latter, who are exclusively found accompanying Moon Priestess Amara (Someone we will get back to). I have no issue with the plated ones except perhaps the colour palette if I had to nitpick, but the leather/mail ones are most likely due to them being supposed to conform to the Hunter class because of the name (which I don’t think is faithful to their earlier depiction as the de facto close range warriors of the Sentinels, and is another example of gameplay warping the lore).

This however all already hints at an inversion of what is found in Warcraft III and War of the Ancients: The higher ranked Sentinels are the ones less armoured, and little is left of the faith they displayed in the RTS, though admittedly, there would be few ways to show it in the limited format of a few "unimportant" NPCs.

Priestesses of the Moon: With very few exceptions (that I will explore more in depth later), they only wear cloth, ending the inversion I just mentioned. A few of them still use martial weapons, but for the most part, they conform to the expectations of the Priest in-game class, and though there are a very few (By my count, 2) examples of them being leaders, or at least part of the Sentinels, the vast majority of in-game Priestesses does not seem to be part of the Sentinels’ hierarchy at all while we see many Sentinel commanders with no indication of them being in any way priestesses.

This is, of course, a stark example of the loss of identity that has resulted from them being made to be represented solely by the Priest class, which results in them losing their very important martial aspect along with the vast majority of their military charges.

Wardens: Never seen until The Burning Crusade.

Specific Examples
While the overall portrayal of night elf society is what interests me, there are a few specific NPCs that I would like to highlight, either because they demonstrate the issue I wish to combat, or because on the contrary, they show that Blizzard was very much aware of what the lore really was, but chose not to represent it on too large a scale or too openly.

Tyrande: Perhaps the direst example since she is no longer the leader of the Sentinels (a capacity in which she is replaced by Shandris Feathermoon) and no longer wears armour, though she does wield a glaive and martial abilities as part of being expected to be fought by the Horde.

Now, to be fair, War of the Ancients does mention robes specific to the position of High Priestess, and she arguably doesn’t need any armour in the Temple of the Moon. This reasoning, however, is entirely specific to Tyrande, with all other faction leaders being more armoured than her (A reversal of their respective Warcraft III portrayal in many cases) and in full combat gear even at the heart of their cities, and considering the fact it only compounds the issue I am highlighting, I think the choice of putting her in cloth instead of armour still has meaning.

Shandris: Represented in Warcraft III by a special archer model, she is now the Sentinels’ General and can be found in Feathermoon Stronghold in Feralas. Her appearance is very much that of a regular Sentinel (so much so that she has a doppelgänger), and there is no hint of her being a Priestess despite her position; In fact, it is her military aspect that is stressed through her dialogue, in effect running away from any implication of her being both a martial and religious leader. Along with, on the other end, Priestesses seemingly stepping down from their positions as military leaders, this has the effect of further separating the two branches of night elf society that are elsewhere in lore shown to be deeply intertwined.

Amara: Explicitly a Moon Priestess, this NPC is however notable for wearing some armour (A breastplate and armoured gloves, and I personally see partially-plated shoulders given the steel colour and regular Sentinel boots looking carefully in the right places) and fighting with a bow when aggroed as part of her patrol, all the while being referred to as a Sentinel (In this quest’s tracking and completion texts). She is also flanked by two Huntresses (The very ones I mentioned as being closer to their plate-wearing Warcraft III portrayal earlier) which would lend credence to her being a high-ranking Sentinel as Priestesses should often be. This is to me the closest World of Warcraft gets to the Warcraft III/War of the Ancients portrayal of Priestesses of the Moon, and she is nigh unique in that regard, which is a shame.

One could argue this is a mistake because the tracking text does not refer to her by her in-game name, however, considering her peculiar appearance and the fact the error is repeated twice (and continued in her giving out the warrior level 10 quest), I think it is at least arguable it is intended. The NPC was also polished enough to use the Priestess voicelines, which seems incongruent with the change being done badly and without caring to alter the quest texts - additionally, she was apparently already a Priestess by the beta (with a comically undersized mount).

Arko'Narin: A rather ill-known and somewhat mysterious NPC, Arko'Narin is the subject of a short series of quests in which you must first help her escape a demon-infested lair and then avenge her dear friend - who is confirmed to be a Knight of the Silver Hand in the quest text.

There are two facts that interest me in this NPC: One, she seems to be part of the Argent Dawn, though it is never made entirely clear, but more importantly, she uses both warrior and priest abilities (You can see her using Holy Fire and Cleave - to little effect in the latter's case - in quick succession here). This makes her perhaps the closest to an honest-to-the-Light paladin night elves ever get, especially considering what are implied to be her allegiances, and regardless of that, definitely a strong example of the night elven overlap between martial and divine abilities; She is however very mysterious - and it seems to me was supposed to be reused but just...wasn't - and we do not know anything about her being a Sentinel, Priestess, both, or neither.

Velinde: She is the night elf who is granted the Scythe of Elune by her Goddess and brings the Worgen into Kalimdor before losing the divine artifact in Duskwood, as discovered in a long quest chain.

What is interesting in relation to the Sentinel-Sisterhood overlap is that while Velinde is explicitly referred to as a priestess throughout the entire quest line, she is also a Sentinel as evidenced by her successor in Ashenvale and superior in Darnassus both being Sentinels themselves, and her belongings being found in the Sentinels’ Bunkhouse (The “comrades” she refers to in her journal are most likely Sentinels too given we essentially never see Priestesses in either Ashenvale or Felwood).

You can also see her ghost twice during the quest chain and it is clad in metal armour and armed with a polearm. Just like with Amara and Arko'Narin, however, this overlap is somewhat hidden and, as I’ve just listed all such overlaps - it is only shown thrice in all of World of Warcraft, four times if you want Tyrande to count even though she clearly is pulled hard in the Priest class' direction, to my knowledge.

War of the Ancients

And now I end with War of the Ancients for a very good reason: It shows that not only is World of Warcraft not having night elf paladins responsible for a change in portrayal from Warcraft III, it isn’t even a shift so much as an exception, an outlier; Blizzard very much still meant for night elven culture to fuse the martial and the divine during and after Vanilla, but didn’t allow that to permeate into World of Warcraft purely because of the Priest/Warrior dichotomy as, once it is no longer here to bind what they can or cannot do - such as in a novel - night elves go back to extensively marrying the military and religious.

Throughout this, remember that the first book of the three (The Well of Eternity) came out 5 months before World of Warcraft was released, while the last (The Sundering) did 8 months after it; The game and books were made not one after the other but completely concurrently; Remember that whenever strong inconsistencies between the two show up, because they will not be the result of new information/lore but an actual choice from Blizzard not to have the two mirror each-other.

And I am sure some people will say that War of the Ancients takes place ten thousand years before World of Warcraft and therefore the reason for this inconsistency could simply be that much of this portrayal actually no longer applies by the time the game covers. However, I have two counter-arguments to this idea:

- Warcraft III, which takes place right before World of Warcraft, fits with War of the Ancients, which means that this supposed societal change wouldn’t have happened over the ten thousand years between WotA and WC3, but over the mere five between WC3 and WoW, which is suddenly a lot less believable.

- The night elves in War of the Ancients are explicitly portrayed as inexperienced at war because their dominant position does not require them to wage it often or in large scale (and they are also burdened by ranks in the Kaldorei Army being dictated more by blood and nobility than actual competency - unlike the Sentinels, the Priestesses do not lead it). It would to me make very little sense, and in fact, negative sense, for the Sisterhood to abandon its martial ways right as it is confronted with the greatest war of its existence and has to spawn two military organizations (The Sentinels and Watchers) for the Long Vigil against the Legion’s return. This applies just as well to it supposedly abandoning them between Warcraft III and World of Warcraft while beset from all sides by orcs and demons.

As to how War of the Ancients actually portrays night elves (in regard to what interests us, that is) the main takeaways are that:

- The Kaldorei Empire has a standing military force that makes heavy use of swords, spears, and mounted lancers.

- The Sisterhood of Elune fights among them using, for the most part, the very same weapons, and not in an improvised way, but as an integral part of their calling.

To prove this, here are choice quotes, with sometimes context given by me not to have to copy entire chapters from the book - I even had to pick and choose which to add because of just how many there were, and you'll even see more quotes in later parts of this post.

Kaldorei Army
The “Kaldorei Army” is said to wear armour that “glitters”, and use spears, lances, and swords. They are described as well-trained, and certainly able to advance on the massive felguards at the risk of their own lives, and are trained to assume battle formations, including mounted ones (The panthers used as mounts are so ferocious as to throw themselves at felhounds and tear at them without hesitation), enough so that they reminded Rhonin of the Alliance’s.

Archers represented only a fraction of the army, while mounted lancers were numerous and powerful enough to push back the Burning Legion upon their first charge while holding a second one in reserve. To refer to their numbers or the way in which they fight their foes as a whole, “blades” is the word used.

Even simple messengers are armoured (Echoing the Warcraft III night elf runner in that regard), and they also use siege engines (Ballistae and catapults are mentioned) though the practice is noted as an innovation since they never had any use for them prior - and regarding my comment about it not making sense for them to wind down their militarisation afterward, by Warcraft III, siege engines are very much a standard part of the night elf arsenal.

I know I am not providing any quote for all this, but they would generally be much too unwieldy to put here because they are part of lengthy battle descriptions - and also cough because I only started taking actual quotes instead of notes later in the first book, when it became apparent it would be a trove of black-on-white lore regarding exactly what I wanted.

Sisterhood of Elune
Some serve as guards at the Temple of the Moon using spears and armour overlapping enough that the clank of metal signals them, and are described thus:
War of the Ancients wrote:As he entered the temple, a pair of guards surveyed him. Instead of robes, they wore gleaming, silver breast plates and kilts, the former marked by a crescent moon design at the center. Like all of Elune’s initiates, they were females and well versed in the arts of defense and battle.
Once the war starts, all priestesses (including novices, among which Tyrande was at the time) trade their robes for armour:
War of the Ancients wrote:Gone was her flowing, white robe. In its place was a form-fitting suit of armor with layered plates that allowed much mobility. The armor covered Tyrande from neck to foot, and over it, almost as an inconsistency, was a shimmering, gossamer cloak the color of moonlight. In the crook of her arm, the young priestess held a winged helmet that would protect the upper portion of her face as well.

To Malfurion, she looked more like the priestess of a war god
We can later read the helm being referred to as “war helmet of the sisterhood”, meaning it was common and most likely even a known thing before the war started; The helmet is also noted to hide the face when worn, so while the parallel is definitely tempting, do not think of the regular World of Warcraft sentinel headgear. Tyrande is also later noted to carry weapons, plural, not just one. And again, this is not some improvised or strictly practical thing for the priestesses to take up arms:
War of the Ancients wrote:You may excel at your new calling, Malfurion, but you seem to have forgotten the elements of Mother Moon! Do you not recall her aspect as the Night Warrior, she who takes the courageous dead from the field and sets them riding across the evening sky as stars for their reward?
War of the Ancients wrote:We are not going to ride with the host simply to offer our healing powers. The high priestess has had a vision in which the sisterhood must actively fight alongside the soldiers and the Moon Guard.
In fact, fighting seemed to integral to the Sisterhood’s mission that it is what Maiev sought to use as proof of her worthiness as High Priestess:
War of the Ancients wrote:With them rode a party of the priestesses of Elune and Jarod noticed his sister, Maiev, at their head. It did not at all surprise him to see her up at the front. Although he quietly worried for her, there would be no dragging her from the battle. He had concluded that Maiev was trying to prove herself to the rest of her sect so that they would correct what she clearly thought an oversight and make her high priestess.
I found this one to possibly be a hint of Elune physically increasing Tyrande’s strength, but one could argue it was merely being underestimated (though single-handedly lifting a male, barely-conscious body onto a mount from atop it, as a woman wearing armour, gently no less, is definitely a feat that implies help to me):
War of the Ancients wrote:Tyrande gently drew him up onto her own mount. Showing surprising strength, she hefted him in front of her, then urged the massive feline on.
However, Elune does explicitly strengthen the body of Tyrande later, though it is in a minor way (even if one could argue that while being a prisoner, it is not so minor):
War of the Ancients wrote:She had not been fed, but Tyrande did not yet feel hunger. Elune still filled her with the moon goddess’s love, nourishment enough for anyone.
War of the Ancients wrote:Hunger began to gnaw at Tyrande’s stomach, not a good sign at all. The Mother Moon had sustained her for a long time, but there was so much need for Elune throughout Kalimdor that she could not concentrate so much on a mere priestess.
The Priestesses give blessings and especially do so in time of war, when the blessing started with “May the Mother Moon guide your spirit, may she grant you her silent strength…” - we unfortunately do not get to read what follows, though Tyrande does end with “Whatever fate battle holds for you now, [...] the Mother Moon will watch over your own spirit.

They even do so during the fighting:
War of the Ancients wrote:The Sisterhood of Elune, resplendent in their battle armor, strengthened the fighters further. Day might have held precedence at the moment, but the priestesses’ rhythmic singing literally fed the nocturnal warriors. It was as if the moon herself suddenly hung over the host.
War of the Ancients wrote:Yet, just as the first of the Fel Guard tore through and started for the pair, warriors astride night sabers charged into the battle from all sides, their beasts mauling some of the demons before the latter realized they were under assault. As the newcomers attacked, they sang.

Malfurion gaped at them, only belatedly realizing that they were not the soldiers of Jarod Shadowsong. Their armor was more silver and—he looked twice—shaped for more feminine figures. The song he heard was in praise of the Night Warrior, the fearsome battle incarnation of the Mother Moon.

The Sisterhood of Elune had come to their rescue.

For the first time, Malfurion saw the quiet, gentle priestesses in their wartime roles. Many carried long, curved swords, while others wielded short lances with points on both ends. A few even had bows no longer than their forearms, from which they swiftly shot dart after dart.
I would also note that they are comparable enough to the Kaldorei Army that for a moment Malfurion does not realise they are not from it, and that the size of their bows may hint at them being only secondary weapons for quick shots while temporarily out of the melee, which would align with them carrying other weapons in greater numbers (“Many” is used for swords, “others” for lances, but “few” for bows).

The primary weapon possibly being the sword, in fact:
War of the Ancients wrote:A priestess swung her blade with the ease of a soldier, decapitating a horned warrior.
War of the Ancients wrote:Jarod’s sister rose and her countenance was one terrible to behold. She started for Illidan, at the same time drawing her weapon.
War of the Ancients wrote:Another sorcerer handed the reins of a sleek, lean female panther to the priestess. Hanging from the animal’s side was a long, sturdy sword no doubt stolen from Captain Varo’then’s soldiers. Nodding her gratitude for this welcome gift, she climbed up and waited.
No direct, but hints at Tyrande’s predecessor as High Priestess fighting in the thick of melee despite, but as we've seen, rather, because of her rank:
War of the Ancients wrote:During the push back toward Suramar, a demon lanced her in the stomach. She might have survived that, her skills for healing strong, but a felbeast caught her first. She was apparently almost dead when some of the others slew it. They brought her back to her tent, where she’s been since…until she died but an hour ago.
And again, indirect, but when Tyrande orders part of the Sisterhood to stay in the back of the battle to tend to the wounded:
War of the Ancients wrote:Some of the sisters looked disturbed, clearly desiring to be up front alongside the fighters.
And regardless of whether or not swords are their primary weapon, Priestesses sure can do some damage with one:
War of the Ancients wrote:One huge warrior managed to slip in behind Dath’Remar. Gasping, Tyrande drew her blade and prayed for Elune to guide her hand.

The sword took on the pale, silver glow of her patron. It cut through the demon’s armor as if through air.
With a grunt, the Fel Guard started to turn toward Tyrande—and the top half of his body slid off. The demon crumpled, the priestess’s blessed strike so fine that its victim had not at first realized that he was dead.

Shandris
If you’ve read my World of Warcraft sum-up, you’ll remember that in World of Warcraft, the Sentinel General has no hint of being a priestess. What transpires in War of the Ancients, however, is that she very much is: The game simply never even hints at it, instead even going possibly further into her military side than for any other Sentinel, having her officially and coldly dismiss the player a couple times. This is why she gets her own category here: She is a rather stark example of the result of the Priest/Warrior dichotomy, having the game actively hide and run away from a canonical overlap.

And I will repeat that War of the Ancients was written during World of Warcraft’s development, and in particular, Shandris appeared in the books before the game’s release, meaning this isn’t some retroactive change that wasn’t mirrored in the game, it is, on the contrary, the game looking at her character and choosing to simplify it to fit the awkward mold it has created for the night elf race because of its gameplay.

And I would add that in War of the Ancients, Shandris’ weapon of choice is the bow to the exclusion of all others (which doesn't reflect on the Sisterhood as a whole, mind you; She does because she would normally be too young for the Priesthood and initially isn't even allowed to participate in battles because of her age), which would, if anything, make her a hunter, but again, Sentinels are warriors, therefore she is a warrior, game mechanics dictating the portrayal of the lore.
War of the Ancients wrote:Her dedication to Tyrande’s work marked her as a possible novice, and the temple always welcomed new sisters.
War of the Ancients wrote:Shorter than the rest, young Shandris Feathermoon lacked a summer or two before she should have been officially able to become a novice. But drastic times demanded drastic measures. Marinda, the sister acting in Tyrande’s absence, had granted Shandris a place in their depleted ranks. Now, clad in slightly-oversize armor taken from a fallen compatriot, the newest of the Mother Moon’s daughters fired off three bolts, all of which scored perfect strikes in the throats of demons.
During the third book, Shandris is referred to as a Priestess, and during Illidan’s trial, along with Maiev, flanks Tyrande who is there as representative of the Sisterhood, implying she has attained some form of actual rank among it.

Avaendis
Posts: 7

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Avaendis » Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:36 pm

Why Not Not Night Elf Paladins ?

Now that I have explained why one could want night elf paladins to be a thing, I would like to address a few reasons others might have not to. And I will concede right away that some, even many of these, are valid arguments, but also point out that the question isn’t whether there is criticism to be made, as there always is, but whether it overwhelms the arguments in favour of the addition.

Night elves do not fight like paladins!

And by that I don't refer to the use of their divine powers - which we will address later - but purely to their armours and weapons, for compartmentalization.

Armours
I hope that throughout my Warcraft III and War of the Ancients exposés, I have shown ample evidence of night elven warriors - and particularly Priestesses of the Moon - being armoured in ways very similar to human knights.

Overlapping plate is mentioned explicitly and shown several times, and though Warcraft III shows gaps in that armour at the joints (something that isn't actually reflected in the Warden, or in its own concept art of the Priestess, or in War of the Ancients, mind you), I would like to remind that the Paladin model from the same game is not exempt from that criticism; Sure, he wears cloth and sometimes leather where plate does not cover, but inversely, some parts of the body that paladins leave without plate are covered in it among night elves. The idea that paladins wear the heaviest of armours is far from true in Warcraft III (where they do not match the Footmen and Knights), so using the game's depiction of night elves seems a bit unfair; But even then, at its worst, night elf armour of members of the Sentinels/Watchers/Sisterhood is arguably side-grade-y compared to that of paladins, and does not pale in the slightest if we take its stronger depictions.

And if one wants to switch the place of the debate to World of Warcraft, then I would retort that not all paladins wear full plate in that game either (The eagle-eyed will notice that in the pair of human paladin and night elf maybe-paladin I mentioned from the MMORPG, the heaviest armoured is the night elf), and are in fact not much more armored than the night elf warrior trainers if at all (You’ll notice that even the lowliest night elf warrior trainer wears plate, something that cannot be said of their human and dwarven counterparts).

And I would remind that the entire problem with the portrayal of night elves is that they are essentially missing the uppermost members of their warrior caste in the form of the Priestesses of the Moon, who are repeatedly shown to wear heavy armour. The argument that night elves are not fit to receive paladins because they do not show their kind of armour in World of Warcraft (which I do not even fully agree with) is essentially circular, as the very reason they do not is that the night elves who should be wearing that sort of armour do not because the absence of paladins made them go from elite martial warriors and religious leaders to only the latter.

Weapons
As to weapons, it is perhaps the most applicable argument, though War of the Ancients goes hard against it (If you'll remember, there, night elves use swords, spears, and lances, and their armies resemble human ones enough that Kronin makes the comparison), and honestly, I think it is also the weakest in that the margin by which night elves are on average less heavily armed than their human brethrens is actually very slim, especially when you consider much of this is due to the somewhat diminutive and hardly true-to-Warcraft III sizes of the night elven glaives.

And it is, as I said, an average; Even in World of Warcraft, you'll find examples, that I have given, of night elf priestesses wielding the heaviest of weapons, but they are rare because the vast majority of the Priestesses of the Moon are relegated to adhering to the Priest class in World of Warcraft.

And the comparison, if you make it in World of Warcraft, feels again unfair since the very problem at hand is that the representation of night elf fighters is cut off at the head since what should be its warrior elite, the Priestesses of the Moon (and to a lesser extent huntresses), has been warped away from its armoured, heavily-armed roots in favour of fitting the various classes of the game, with the absence of night elf paladins forcing this elite to choose between Warrior and Priest - and Priest won out, erasing its martial aspect.
Night elves do not wield the Light!

Depending on your opinion on the relationship between Elune and the Light, and especially the definition of Paladin, this is an argument that can take many different forms.

- If you adhere to the Dungeons & Dragons definition of Paladin, the Light isn't at all required, Elune can take its place for night elf Paladins - on the other hand, this also opens a lot more than night elfs to the class.

I don't think I need to justify this point of view much, since it is effectively readily accepting night elf paladins as a thing that essentially already exists considering everything I have shown about Priestesses of the Moon who would, in D&D terms, actually be paladins, combining heavy armour and divinely-enhanced martial attacks in the service of a deity.

- If you think Paladins do not need the Light per se, but need something close to it, then, again, there are many arguments for Elune being sufficient, and contrarily to the previous form, this would not allow the Horde to have paladins - extreme edge cases aside such as exceptionally faithful Forsaken, for example.

There are a few aspects one can call upon as needed for Elune to fit to be able to properly replace the Light, and I think I would personally describe them as: Values, Abilities, and Flair.

Values
To define the Light's values, I think an extract from the World of Warcraft RPG (heavily trimmed since it is several pages long) is a pretty good idea:
World of Warcraft RPG wrote:The Holy Light is not a religion. It is a philosophy, a way of living that provides spiritual strength and guidance to those who follow it. For those who understand the Holy Light, faith is a matter of practice rather than worship.

The fundamental concept of the Holy Light is that feeling – in both the emotional and physical sense – is evidence of the connection between the self and the universe. [...]

The Holy Light teaches that once you acknowledge the connection between yourself and the rest of the world, you must acknowledge that your health and happiness are also connected to that of the world. [...]

[...] Those who practice the Light focus their efforts on developing three virtues: respect, tenacity, and compassion. Each virtue is further divided into a principle and a lesson [...].

[...]

Principles and Lessons of the Three Virtues
The principle of respect:
Each thing has its own connection to the world.
The lesson of respect:
Do not harm what you would value if it were yours.
The principle of tenacity:
The world is too large to be remade in a day.
The lesson of tenacity:
Perseverance creates strength.
The principle of compassion:
You accomplish more brightening the lives of others than your own.
The lesson of compassion:
Give aid freely, but do not diminish the one who receives it.
Respect is a rather important value to the night elves, who routinely uses the "Shan'Do" or "Mistress" honorifics throughout Warcraft III and organise in a society heavily hierarchized, but - unlike the human's - this hierarchy is born entirely of competency and experience (along with, in the Priestesses and Druids' cases, atunement with their patrons) rather than nobility. Respect to one's superiors is important, but also to anyone else; Night elves strive to be one with nature and their environment, giving great importance to other "lesser" races such as the Furbolgs and even spiders or tigers. I think it is undeniable that night elf society, and especially the Priestesses of the Moon, practice respect as dutifully as paladins.

When it comes to tenacity, it is harder to come with hard proof, but I would say the Priestesses' determination during the War of the Ancients (the event, not the book) and following Long Vigil show rare tenacity, along with, in general, night elf patience and determination to do things even should they take centuries or more.

And when it comes to compassion, again Priestesses of the Moon are widely shown to adhere to this principle, dispensing their blessings and gifts to almost anyone who would ask; Throughout Warcraft III, Tyrande will often stop and help various neutral parties even when it does not help her cause, and in War of the Ancients, she, unlike the Kaldorei Army, healed Broxigar and gave him his blessing when he was but a prisoner who had attacked the elves - even in World of Warcraft, the shift from warrior-priestesses to priestesses serving my angle for once, they are also shown to care for life and the well-being of all those around them.

So I think it is very easily argued that Priestesses of the Moon adhere to the values of the Light, and Elune would create paladins very much aligned with those of the Light should they ever be considered entirely separate.

Abilities

There is a lot of overlap between this argument and the later "Current paladin spells do not fit night elf paladins!" section, and so I would direct you there for actual details, but to sum it up, Priestesses of the Moon are able to heal, enhance their physical attacks, exorcise (both in the sense of dispelling negative spells and banishing demons), and are able to enhance and protect their physical forms and those of others. I am in fact unsure whether there is anything the Light does in truly canon, non game-y way, that the Priestesses were not shown to do.

Flair

If you paid any attention to what people say about Elune, you'll notice light (no capital) plays a huge part in her worship. It is also routinely - in fact nigh-universally, only the likes of Starfall in Warcraft III differing, though even that is debatable - associated with her manifestations, from her healing to offensive abilities. Of course, said light is described as silvery instead of golden, but by that point, the argument applies just as much to Paladins as it does to Priests, so we already fall squarely within the standards of World of Warcraft.

- And finally, if you think Paladins are required to wield the Light, while I think that is a needlessly pedantic definition, there is also a something for you.

There is no doubt that the magic wielded by the night elven Priestesses is not the same as that wielded by human clerics (and by extension paladins). However, that this magic does not originate in the Light is a more contestable idea.

The most direct argument in favour of night elves actually wielding the Light is found in Doling Justice’s progress text: The followers of Elune are followers of the Light, said by Tyrande herself. Many people take issue with this idea, but it is not so absurd when you consider that until later expansions, the Light is but a source of energy one can tap into with the right technique (See the Warcraft III Priest’s Heal spell description) and values.

Whether Elune herself taps into this energy or has taught the Night Elves to do it directly (Both being certainly worthy of the Light - I have addressed that a bit higher - and a Goddess definitely not beneath the knowledge of how to do so), there is nothing contradictory about the idea that night elves tap into this energy in their worship of Elune.

And this wouldn’t imply that followers of the Light are followers of Elune, the inclusion is only one way, and does not even mean that all abilities granted by Elune employ the Light (or that Elune does not empower them when she chooses to intervene herself), it simply means some do. In fact, something that could hint at this “one-way relationship” are the racial priest abilities’ quests.

You see, priest trainers from other races will have breadcrumb quests to send priests to their own trainers to receive their racial abilities, on top of the appropriate trainers from the capital cities having direct quests for that. And out of all these quests, only the night elven ones mention these abilities being unique to them, both from their own mouths (Here and there) and those of other races’ priests (Here). Any time a human trainer sends the dwarf player to their dwarf trainer or vice-versa, they speak of rites or something important to say, but so do night elf trainers; The way theses quests are written directly tells us that wielders of the Light cannot teach Elune-specific abilities, no fewer than three separate times, but the inverse is never so much as implied.

Finally, I would mention that because of the aforementioned "fitness" of Priestesses of the Moon for the Light (See the previous section about the possibility of Elune worship replacing the Light for night elf paladins), and the fact the Light is not a religion but a practice, there is nothing that would prevent night elves from learning to use the Light without renouncing Elune, and in fact, Turtle WoW has already written something to that effect with a member of the Argent Dawn calling onto both when injured (And I have also provided an example of a night elf warrior-priestess combo seemingly belonging to the Argent Dawn).

Current paladin spells do not fit night elves!

In lieu of paragraphs of text, I will simply present a list of things that show night elves wielding equivalents to in-game paladin abilities, because I think it is actually the best argument I could make. Some will retort that the misfit is more fundamental than that, residing in the tint of the light or symbols used, but my counter is obvious: This extends to Priests just as much as Paladins, yet no-one is mad enough to argue that we should deny night elves the Priest class - let alone on top of the absurd upheaval not having Paladin has created as I hope I have showed - on such petty grounds.
Holy Light/Flash of Light: Priestesses are routinely shown to heal others during War of the Ancients - in general, I don't think I need to provide quotes for this.

Auras: As shown in the War of the Ancients section, Priestesses of the Moon sing in battle to inspire and augment their fellow warriors.

Blessings: Again calling to the books, Priestesses formally and extensively bless others, including one tailored for battle. Additionally, in Warcraft III, blessings specific to the Ancients are mentioned, and one could very easily imagine each blessing corresponding to a different one.
Blessing of Kings -> Blessing of Malorne
For being Elune’s lover and a balanced being.

Blessing of Might -> Blessing of Goldrinn
For being ferocious to a fault.

Blessing of Wisdom -> Blessing of Cenarius
For being a teacher.

Blessing of Salvation -> Blessing of Omen
For yearning for respite.

Blessing of Sanctuary -> Blessing of Agamaggan
For being so powerful as to disregard smaller beings.

Blessing of Light -> Blessing of Aessina
For being a source of life.

Blessing of Freedom -> Blessing of Aviana
For being savage and embodying freedom to go wherever one wants.

Blessing of Protection -> Blessing of Tortolla
For being resistant to attacks during the War of the Ancients.

Blessing of Sacrifice -> Blessing of Ursoc
For his spirit of sacrifice during the War of the Ancients.

Divine Protection/Divine Shield/Divine Intervention:
War of the Ancients wrote:The moment that the demon had attempted to harm her physically, a faint aura the color of moonlight had draped around Elune’s acolyte. Nothing Archimonde or his minions could do could penetrate it. Against such evil effort, the plated armor surrounding her lithe form would have proven as useful as the thin, silver cloak that they had ripped from her early on, but the transparent aura acted like an iron wall a mile thick. Archimonde had battered himself against it time and time again to no avail.
Cleanse/Lay on Hands/Purify:
War of the Ancients wrote:She forced herself to touch it, hoping that she could at least prevent it from spreading. From behind her she heard

Shandris gasp. The girl feared for her, and rightly so. One never knew what a demon-caused wound might do. The
Burning Legion would not be averse to spreading plague.

The moon was not present in the sky, but that did not concern Tyrande. While the priestesses were strongest when it
was visible, they were fully aware that it was never far away. Their link to Elune was powerful no matter what time
of day or night or even cycle.

“Mother Moon, hear my entreaties,” she whispered. “Grant this humble one the cool, soothing powers of your
touch. Guide my hands to the source of this abomination, and let me remove the taint so that this innocent might
recover…”

Tyrande began humming under her breath, a way of focusing her will into her work. The injuries that she had
healed for Broxigar paled in comparison to what she attempted now. It took all her control just to keep from feeling
that she would fail.

Without warning, a pale, silvery light shone around her fingers. The victim’s mate stared wide-eyed, and again
Shandris gasped. Tyrande’s hopes rose; once again, Elune was responding to her. Truly the goddess was with her
this day!

The healer traced her fingers around the wound, taking special care where the foulness was worst. Tyrande could
not help but grimace as she touched the pus-ridden areas. What sort of evil were the demons that their very bite or
scratch left such horror in its wake?

As her fingertips went past the ravaged areas, the injury grew less horrific in appearance. The pustules shriveled,
finally disappearing. The bloody crevice narrowed at each end, as if slowly sealing itself.

Encouraged, Tyrande continued praying to Elune. The infection shrank to a small, oval patch, while the wound
itself became a scar, first fresh, then nearly gone.

The male suddenly groaned, as if awaking from a deep sleep, but Tyrande did not stop. She could not presume that
the disappearance of outer signs meant that the wound had completely healed inside. There would be poisons from
the infection in the victim’s blood.

Several tense seconds later, when the male’s chest finally rose and sank at a more sedate rate and his eyes fluttered
open, the priestess knew that she had defeated the demon’s work.
After Rhonin is affected by a powerful demon’s spell, priestesses exorcize him.
War of the Ancients wrote:Maiev was sweating. The second priestess shook. Rhonin’s body quivered and his already-pale flesh looked as white as the moon.
The wizard jolted to a sitting position. His mouth opened wide in a silent scream—and then, for the first time since being struck down, Rhonin blinked.
A groan escaped the human. He would have slumped back against the rock, possibly striking his head, but the captain acted, managing to thrust a hand in between.
With a sigh, the wizard closed his eyes. His breathing grew regular.
“Is he—?”
“He’s free of the demon’s hold, brother,” Maiev replied somewhat shakily. “He will rest as long as he needs.” She rose. “It was a hard struggle, but Elune was generous, praise be.”

Consecration/Exorcize/Holy Shock/Holy Wrath:
War of the Ancients wrote:Pulling up, she raised her sword to her face and called again upon the powers granted her by the Mother Moon. Whether or not she survived, Tyrande could not stand idly by while others perished.
“Please, Mother Moon, hear me, Mother Moon…” the priestess muttered.
The glow about her blade spread to her, at the same time intensifying. Tyrande thought of the cleansing light of the lunar deity, how, under it, everything was revealed for what it was.
The silver aura flared bright.
Under Elune’s light, the mist melted away. Demons on the ground and in the sky found nothing shielding them. More important, they suddenly cringed and looked away, unable to withstand the divine illumination.
[...] Straining, Tyrande looked into the contorted visage of a Doomguard. The demon’s eyes were all but shut and his ragged breathing indicated just how much the illumination around her pained him.
War of the Ancients wrote:Tyrande stood with them, the priestess of Elune calling upon the pure light of her mistress to blind, even burn, the approaching monsters.
The only spells I could not find full justification for are Judgement, Seals, Hammer of Justice, and Hammer of Wrath. For the last two, I'm not sure I even understand what they would actually entail in the lore as opposed to the game (Remember that many abilities are definitely not lore-accurate), but as for Seals, I think one could easily find justifications similar to those for Blessings (And Tyrande empowers her sword with divine power as I've already provided quotes for, so the effect is also entirely plausible), and as for Judgement, Priestesses can blast their enemies with Elune's power (See Starfall in Warcraft III and the quotes I have provided for the likes of Exorcize here), so I think that, all in all, there is very, very little that doesn't fit.

Night elves do not have a paladin order!

To that I say: Yet! The Sisterhood of Elune is not new to splintering into new organisations (The Sentinels and Watchers both originated from it) and a paladin one would be no more specialized than the Watchers; Only thing that would remain to be written is said organisation actually being founded, but we're on Turtle WoW! At the end of this post, I will propose an implementation (In fact, two!) and I hope this will satisfy those who levy this argument against night elf paladins.

And again, I urge you to consider that perfection is not the goal; Try this exercise with night elf priests and see how much is left that makes no sense - I think you’ll find the vast majority of the Shadow spells fits that category, and many others, not to mention that as I showed, them being cloth-wearing casters with no physical abilities is a huge problem in and of itself that Blizzard only "solved" by cutting that aspect of night elf society outright. We accept in all aspects of World of Warcraft that corners will be cut and efforts of imagination will be needed; We give this benefit to many many things in the game, and many additions of Turtle WoW, when it is worth the price, so let’s give it to night elf paladins too who, I think, are worth the price in that they will allow night elves to finally match their lore in-game.

Avaendis
Posts: 7

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Avaendis » Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:37 pm

Implementation

Of course, adding night elf paladins to Turtle WoW is no small undertaking, and I think many would be hesitant to support the idea without seeing what idea they would actually be supporting.

That's why I've compiled an outline (Plus a few quests actually written, to give a feel but also prove I am ready to put in the writing effort), in fact, two for what night elf paladins could be. Two because I understand that night elf paladins would on the one hand benefit from being different from their human/dwarf/high elf brethrens, but that on the other, it would be a challenge to implement said difference, and to some, said differences may even not be acceptable when it comes to being considered paladins.

That is why I present two paths (Both branching off the same prelude below) for night elf paladins, one focused on their identity as night elves, the other espousing much more closely the ways of their fellow Alliance paladins.

Prelude
During the Third War, Zin’Andri Ravencrest, Kur’Talos’ daughter, was a priestess of the moon who, owing to, much like her father, competency along with an openness to new ways, was given command of the night elven forces that helped defend Jaina Proudmoore’s lines during the final hour.

The short but intense conflict taught her the basics of Common and gave her insight into the humans’ (and a few of their allies’) ways, and shortly after the war - once her injuries had healed and the most pressing matters of the aftermath had been dealt with - she volunteered to be sent to the Kingdom of Stormwind to strengthen the bonds of the newly born Grand Alliance.

Dispensing the wisdom of over ten thousand years of experience to her fellow warriors, she also observed their tactics and traditions, watching for ways in which the Kaldorei might also learn from them. Of particular interest, in her report to the Temple of the Moon, were the paladins, a direct answer to the Orc and demonic threats - that were both looming over Ashenvale - who married martial prowess and divine abilities much like the night elven priestesses, but in ways that were slightly different yet highly effective.

Tyrande, taking heed of Zin’Andri and a few others’ praise of the paladins’ abilities, decided to make this strength the Kaldorei’s, and to assemble a small group of night elves who would, hopefully, learn the ways of the Knights of the Silver Hand. After difficult negotiations, the paladins accepted the offer, thinking they too would be able to learn from what was promised to be elite warriors and priestesses, and in return for a pledge of mutual allegiance between the two groups.

Led by Zin’Andri, this first generation of night elf paladins learned directly from the humans, and later returned to Kalimdor to teach other Kaldorei what they had learned. Thus was born the Order of the Argent Crescent, child and twin both to the Sisterhood of Elune and the Knights of the Silver Hand, their name paying tribute to both.
Night Elf Path

The player will learn from the aforementioned first generation of night elf paladins and a few of their own students, slowly making them into a fully fledged member of the Order of the Argent Crescent.
Level 1 Quest

Quest - Sanctified Sigil

This sigil was given to me by [Shadowglen Paladin trainer], who recently arrived from the distant land of Stormwind. She told me to give it to you as soon as I found you, without delay.

Completion

You haven’t lost time, <name>, as I hoped - we have much work to do, and it will not be easy.

But don’t think too much about that for now, focus on doing good around you. Teldrassil needs it, and in the end, you too; Where virtue comes, favor follows.

As to the more practical matter of your training, I will be handling that. Come to me whenever you need guidance - be it in the ways of a paladin or else, I will help you.
Sigil wrote:You must have just arrived to Shadowglen, <name>, and I apologize for the speed with which I require your attention, but you volunteered for our great undertaking, and I must hold you to that vow - though, fret not, I am not here for judgment, but for guidance.

Find me inside Aldrassil, on the second level, and I shall set you on the path you have chosen, for you, but also for our people, for on Teldrassil and in this world, we are all intertwined.

- [Shadowglen Paladin Trainer], Paladin Trainer
Level 6 Quest

At level 6, the Dolanaar Paladin trainer gives the player a quest almost identical to the Priest one, asking them to use Holy Light (Rank 2) and then Blessing of Might on a wounded Sentinel. After that, they are formally welcomed into the Sisterhood of Elune and given the same robes as their Priest brethrens.

Level 12 Quest

At level 10, the player is sent to Tyrande who explains that to thank the humans for their crucial help, she would like to give Duke Lionheart (The human paladin Tyrande kills at the start of the first night elf campaign in Warcraft III) his final rest, and his belongings to his family. However, she cannot spare the time it would take to do this away from her responsibilities, and also recognizes the symbolism of having a member of the new night elven paladin order complete that task, so she asks the player to do it in her stead.

They are thus asked to go to southern Darkshore with a Parchment of Purification to find the remains of Duke Lionheart, purify them, and bring a few of his belongings to Stormwind for proper burial. Performing the purification ritual upon the remains, whose location is described by Tyrande and that reaching does not require straying from the road until the very end or fighting monsters, grants the player the Redemption ability. The corpse, once purified, completes the quest and gives the next, asking the player to go to Stormwind’s Cathedral of Light with his remains and belongings, where the dead paladin’s old comrades may know his family’s whereabouts.

There, Duthorian Rall awaits for quest completion; He informs the player that the Lionheart family has lived in Theramore since the Third War, but that the eldest daughter serves here as a novice, following in her father’s footsteps, and is currently tending to the catacombs. The player is, of course, asked to bring the remains and belongings to her.

The daughter accepts the remains from the player’s hands, and thanks the night elves for not turning away from their mistake; She says she will put her father to rest here herself, but before doing so, gives his libram (Very minor benefits, only there to fill the slot, like the early rings) to the player, saying she would rather it keep serving good than stay here with paladins who can no longer serve the Light. She however also asks that once she is finally ready to carry her father’s torch, it be returned to her - the libram also starts a quest, at level 50, that asks the player to return it to her.

Quest 0 - Optional - The High Priestess’ Request

Ah, <name>! Not long ago, a runner from the Temple of the Moon came and asked for a volunteer for a mission that required Elune’s blessing, trust, but also a long journey away from our sacred lands, and I thought you could be that person.

Make sure your business here is settled, <name>, and head for Darnassus where you are awaited.

Completion

<paladin trainer> sent you? Then I know you will serve us well in this grave matter.

Quest 1 - A Personal Favor

Long ago, when we scarcely knew who or what humans were, I thought I was protecting the sanctity of our forests by killing one of them, Duke Lionheart. I know now the error I made then, but it has not been undone, and never will be.

However, I seek atonement for myself and peace for Duke Lionheart still. I wanted to do this myself, but it has now been years and I have not been able to find the time to make such a long journey, and now I would rather it be done at all, so I ask you to act in my stead, <name>.

Take this parchment of purification and find the remains of Duke Lionheart in southern Darkshore, barely south of the Grove of the Ancients; Purify his remains from whatever may have corrupted them since, and take them along with his belongings to the Cathedral of the Light in Stormwind, where perhaps his old comrades will know what to do with them.

Progress

I know this is asking much of you, <name>, and do take care of anything that might be holding you here, but please hurry.

Completion

All that is left of the once mighty paladin are now bones, some of his armor, a libram, and a hammer, all half buried into Darkshore’s earth, and at last free of the corruption that unfortunately abounds here.

Quest 2 - Final Journey

Thanks to the ritual and some summary cleaning, you manage to safely extricate Duke Lionheart’s remains and belongings, and store them into a small, ornate box Tyrande gave you to that effect.

Now you must return to Auberdine where a board to Stormwind awaits you. Once in the sprawling human city, find the Cathedral of Light where hopefully, the late paladin’s fellow knights will know where to send you to finish the mission Tyrande have you.

Completion - Duthorian Rall

A night elf is a rare sight in these lands, especially here - but you are welcome all the same.

Could you be a friend of Zin’Andri ? She said more of her companions may come here to learn our ways.

Quest 3 - Final Rest

Oh, you bear a heavy burden indeed, <name>: Gregory Lionheart’s story is not one for joy, and once was a source of bad blood within what is now the Grand Alliance. But fret not, neither I nor any of my fellow knights would receive your quest with anything but thanks; The High Priestess too will be honored for atoning instead of hoping never to hear of her mistake again.

I am however afraid I only know of one member of Lionheart’s family, though I believe she said the rest of it was in Theramore; His eldest daughter, Leanna, came here recently, hoping to walk in her father’s footsteps, and as we speak, her apprenticeship has her care for the catacombs below. She is young and still grieving, but her path, for better and worse, has hardened her; Go see her, her father’s ultimate fate is hers to decide.

Progress

Have you found Leanna in the catacombs ? She should be there.

Completion - Leanna Lionheart (New NPC)

This place has seen better days, but I assure you it knows only peace, and everyone here is taken care of.

Oh, I…I didn’t expect this to ever happen, not now…My family and I grieved with what little we had, perhaps this will help walk the rest of that path…

Thank you regardless…What was it ? <name>, yes…I’m sorry I can’t thank you with much more than words, I am alone here as a novice, and this is all so sudden…

I will make sure my father’s remains are finally put to rest myself, right here…Thank you again, <name>. For long I struggled with night elves being my father’s murderers, and I know my family still does; Now I have something to tell them, and even if it is little, it is more than we hoped for, and more than you and your people had to give us.

Quest 4 - Passing of the Torch

Actually, perhaps there is a way to thank you. My father’s items you brought back, they don’t belong here with the dead, they belong in service to the Light, protecting the innocent and those who guard them.

You said you were given this mission because you could purify my father’s remains, and that there was kinship between your call and that of us paladins of the Light ? If you can find wisdom in my father’s libram, then, I would entrust it to you until I am worthy to carry it in battle myself.

Is it agreed, <name> ?

Reward

Libram of the Lionhearts: +3 Spirit, +2 Stamina
This item starts a quest

Quest 5 - Return of the Torch (Starts with the item Libram of the Lionhearts; Requires level 50)

You have learned much since Leanna entrusted you with her father’s libram, and you start to think that so must she - maybe she is now a paladin, like you. Perhaps it is time to bring the heirloom back to her.

Completion

It has been a long time, <name>. I can’t imagine all the adventures you’ve been through since I last saw you; I hope my father’s libram served you well in those trials.

As for me, I have been ordained, and I would indeed like the book back now that I am ready to carry it in the Light and Stormwind’s name.

I am thankful for everything you did, <name>, for my family and me; Finally I can carry the torch my father left when he died, and I will not forget that you did too.

Thank you and farewell, <name>, and may the Light guard you wherever you go - I know it will.

Level 20 Quest

Night elves can either do the same quest as their human/dwarf/high elf brethrens, or a unique one I have outlined below where the player will help create a robe interwoven with Elunite plates.

Quest 0 - Optional - The Temple of the Moon Waits (Breadcrumb quest given by various NPCs)

<name> ? [Paladin trainer] sent word for you to meet her at the Temple of the Moon, it didn't seem too urgent, but I wouldn't make her wait too much still.

Quest 1 - Raw, Corrupted Materials

Ah, <name>, I wanted to see you: Zin’Andri, our order’s founder, came to me earlier and mentioned a mission for you - I talked to her about your progress, I hope you don’t mind word of your service preceding you.

She said we had work to do recovering holy items from evil hands and purifying them, but would also like them to serve Elune again, and thought you would make a perfect recipient.

The first object of importance are the robes of a priestess of the moon which somehow made their way into the claws of a dark mage in “Shadowfang Keep”, deep in the undead lands of the Eastern Kingdoms.

The second, though it is more than a single item, are shards of Elunite the Twilight Hammer has collected in Blackfathom Deeps; We do not know if they can use the metal at all, but Zin’Andri does not want to find that out the hard way.

Bring those to me, and I will guide you towards making them into your armor.

Progress

Have you recovered the items we need, <name> ?

Completion

I knew you would succeed, <name>, even if it took traveling to these defiled lairs and vanquishing their evils!

Quest 2 - Back into Elune’s Grace

Ah, the Elunite and robes are in decent shape, but they have been fouled by those who stole them from the Mother Moon’s service. But don’t worry, <name>, we knew that was a possibility - just as evil corrupts, we purify and redeem.

Step into the waters below, and use them to rid what you recovered of the stain of the vile magic that sought to use our ancient might against us, then come back to me for the next step.

Progress

Hurry, <name>, the task is simple, and this stench defiles the Temple.

Completion

What glory to behold these in their renewed clarity, <name>! But we aren’t done yet, you will see!

Quest 3 - Mathiel’s Holy Work

Find Mathiel near Warrior’s Terrace, <name>, and offer him the opportunity to work Elunite again. I know he will not refuse it, let alone from us.

Give him this letter along with the “raw materials”, it describes the task.

Completion

What can I do for the order ?

Quest 4 - Hammer Away

Of course I would do this, but I am afraid I cannot, not without my old hammer. I must admit having it was a luxury, except when trying to hammer Elunite into very fine pieces - not to bore you with the details, but the metal is hard to work into intricate pieces.

A satyr stole it long ago, and though I tried to recover it at first, as I said, it was a luxury. Still, I asked a friend of mine, a Sentinel in Ashenvale, to keep an ear out for its whereabouts, in case it could ever come back to me easily...

But it hasn’t, and worse, over time, the satyrs’ endless feuds and schemes have obscured which of them had it. Last I heard, it was most likely still in Satyrnaar, but I don’t know any more than that. If you dare fight these wretches, slay them until one has the hammer or tells you where it is; Then, I would be honored to serve your new order with my talents.

Progress

Have you found it, <name>?

Completion

Ah, my oldest and most silent companion…Let’s get to work, <name>, this task has waited long enough!

[Once the quest has been turned in, Mathiel starts hammering the Elunite into threads, and weaves them into the vestments]

Quest 5 - The Mundane and the Spiritual

Here it is, <name>, the alliance of the Sisterhood’s ceremonial vestments and finely crafted Elunite - if I can say so myself. It is always an honor and a pleasure to work this metal.

I should warn you, however, my touch is only that of a blacksmith, and this armor is, for now, only carefully fashioned metal - but I’m sure [paladin trainer] can see to that.

Go back to her, I did send word to her that there would be a delay while you were away, but I think she still expects you at the earliest. And don’t forget your robes - they are fit to serve only Elune’s warriors, and will do it well.

Completion

Sorry Mathiel couldn’t actually do what I asked, I had seen him work Elunite before, I assum-

[Once the quest is turned in, a runner arrives and starts talking to Tyrande; After the dialogue, the next quest can be taken up.]
Dialogue wrote:Runner: High Priestess, finally! I come from Darkshore where satyrs are incanting a dark spell as we speak! A druid and a few Sentinels have taken the fight to them, but they’re too few to break through, and ask for reinforcement!

Tyrande: They shall have it, but our forces are already stretched so thin…Can you carry another message ?
Runner: Of course, mistress.

Tyrande: Send word to Ashenvale, and pray to the Moon Mother that this dangerous magic hasn’t wreaked havoc by the time th-

[Paladin trainer]: If I may, High Priestess, the Order of the Argent Crescent stands at your command! [/salutes] <name> here has proven <himself/herself> in battle already, and demons are our specialty!

Tyrande: A commendable initiative, but I cannot entrust so much to one pair of hands so carelessly...I can still give you one chance.

Run to Darkshore and these vile satyrs, <name>, my faithful owl will accompany you - send her back to me if you succeed.

If I do not receive such news quickly, I will have no choice but to divert the Silverwing Sentinels’ efforts - rest, runner, your services may still be needed.
Quest 6 - The Order’s Call

The runner has explained the situation to me: Run to southern Darkshore, where the satyrs have nestled themselves, right into the side of the mountains between it and Ashenvale, west of the road.

A druid offered to disrupt their spell from afar, forcing them to come to the Sentinels, but they were too few still, even with this defensive advantage, and had to retreat after being battered.

Care for their wounds and renew the assault with them, <name>! When you are done, send Tyrande’s owl back to us so that we may spare the Silverwing Sentinels costly reinforcements.

[The mission is timed - but the timer is mostly for flair; All the player needs to do is find the druid and Sentinels, heal them into shape, and then start the encounter which simply consists of defending the druid while the Sentinels offer to cover the rear against backstabbing satyrs.

When the druid’s spell completes, a satyr yells and an emote conveys that a loud explosion resonates as the spell fails, and the player can use the owl item to complete the quest.]

Completion (Druid - new NPC)

Thank you, priestess - every now and then, I find myself thanking your warrior ways.

Quest 7 - Mission Accomplished

A “paladin”? Most interesting. It is to a paladin we owe victory today, then, I shall remember it.

The spell’s disruption and their losses to your efforts must have left the satyrs in no shape to fight, let alone without a good reason now that their plot has failed; These brave Sentinels and I will handle their scattered remnants if they are foolish enough to try our might again.

Return to Darnassus, and tell our dear High Priestess that I will soon make my way there myself, but only after investigating the exact nature of the foul magic that was attempted here, <name>.

Completion

You have served the Kaldorei well, today, <name> - more than well. Do not underestimate what a single soul can do in this world; If you had not risen to this task, we would have had to divert precious reinforcements from Ashenvale, or worse, the spell may have been cast.

The Order of the Silver Crescent is young still, but promising, and you are part of that promise. Where I had some doubts in these new ways, I now have faith, and trust.

But enough formalities after what has been a long day. [Paladin trainer] told me you were seeking Elune’s blessing for your new vestments, and if you’ll allow me, I will provide it.

Level 40 Quest

At level 40, the player is entrusted with a leather-armoured version (At least if I can find someone to make something like that) of one of the regular night elf mounts, normally trained for the Sentinels’ Huntresses.

Level 60 Quest

At level 60, the player will be tasked with finding a particularly vicious satyr in Felwood; To find them, the player must follow clues and eventually Holy Wrath at their exposed location to get them out of invisibility (Like the Unseen in Duskwood, he does not attack until AoE-d) and kill them.

The satyr, however, drops a small cage with a Winterspring Frostsaber cub inside, and two pairs of adult Frostsaber fangs; Unsure what to make of this, the player simply returns to the paladin who gave the quest, and asks them what to do.

Their superior is about as dumbfounded as the player is despite the ability to curse the satyr for his ignoble act, and asks the player to find a friend of the Frostsabers in Winterspring, who should know what to do. However, Rivern replies that without his parents and with the stench of demons about them, one not easily dispelled to the Frostsabers, the cub will not find refuge with its kind, such is the cruelty of nature.

Nevertheless, he says he will attempt to raise it with his knowledge of the Frostsabers, but that it will take patience and dedication, and more importantly, that the player will be responsible for it once it is used to them. He gives the player a quest to complete a daily feeding quest (which involves gathering food and feeding it to the cub) 5 separate times, and then gives the player the cub now that it recognizes them as their caretaker.

The player can summon the cub as a pet, and take it to their superior; Said superior says the cub might one day make a fine mount, but that it will take time for them to grow into an adult, even if the moment doesn’t seem that far. The player can begin collecting the items needed for the barding then, while they also need to complete several more days of the feeding daily given by the cub.

The exact requirements for the barding will be decided…later, especially since I am not sure how closely it needs to follow the human quest to make it fair in the dev’ team’s eyes.

At the end of the quest, an armoured Winterspring Frostsaber (with perhaps a silver version of the charger’s aura, not sure how possible that is) becomes the night elf paladin’s mount.
Human Path

The player will be shortly trained into a novice of the Order of the Argent Crescent on Teldrassil before being sent to Stormwind to learn from the humans the ways of a paladin. Only after a long while will they return to the Order to finally be made into one of its fully-fledged members, near equal parts Kaldorei paladin and Silver Hand knight, tied to the former by creed and vow, and indebted to the latter where they have many companions.
1-49 Quests

Identical to the night elf path for the level 1, 6, and 12 quests (with slight modifications to make it clear the player is to stay in human lands to learn their ways), and the addition of a level 50 one; Apart from that, all quests are the same (Mutatis mutandis - I would of course review their text and perhaps craft slightly modified quest texts to fit, but functionally, they would be identical).

Level 50 Quest

Quest 0 - Optional - A Long awaited Return

You have learned and helped much here, <name>, and many here will forever call you one of their <brothers/sisters> in arms.

But you were sent here for a reason, and though it would be easy, I would not dare forget it; Your people need you as much as ours us, <name>, and it is time you return to them with the knowledge and power to help them.

Travel back to Darnassus and tell your mistress that; I have written a letter detailing your service and abilities, give it to her when you arrive.

The Light will travel with you, <name>, of that, I have no doubt.

Completion

Oh, <name>, it has been long since you left for Stormwind - I almost didn’t recognise you.
Letter wrote:The <man/woman> you sent here was but a novice, but amidst our rank, <he/she> turned into a paladin - in body, mind, and soul. Your paladin, then, has helped our people many a time and fought with valor.

I would not have expected nor asked more of any of my knights, and it is not only with my esteem and that of my fellows that <name> returns to you, but also with honor.

Take pride, as I have, in what <he/she> has accomplished far from your lands, and what <he/she> has become.

- Duthorian Rall
Quest 1 - The Order of the Argent Crescent

I am glad to see you again, <name>. Your service, even beyond our borders, has honored us, and so does your return.
In due time, I am sure you will prove yourself, but consider yourself already a <brother/sister> to us all; The Knights of the Silver Hand have vouched for you, and we know that is high praise from our brothers in arms.

I would say our duty never ends, but I know how you feel, for I have been in your boots one day, not so long ago; Breath in the air of Teldrassil, <name>, and rest for a small but good while, confident in what you have achieved, and looking forward to what you will as a <brother/sister> of the Order of the Argent Crescent.

User avatar
Meepingmeeps
Posts: 23

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Meepingmeeps » Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:07 pm

I agree with all of this! Despite the Night Elves not following the religion of the Holy Light, I'm sure the devs could spin it to be something to do with Elune or roleplayers could do it for them.

Anarielle
Posts: 1

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Anarielle » Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:09 pm

I support this, I've wanted to play a night elf paladin since retail vanilla, and still do. Let me play a Priestess of the Moon finally. It's very exhausting to constantly make a priest and go 'No, see, this dagger here is *totally* my martial weapon, the game just refuses to let me use it.' Or in reverse, playing a warrior and going 'No, see, this is a healing spell, totally not bandages, because clearly I can do both'.

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Mativh
Posts: 253

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Mativh » Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:14 pm

I think you'd like to read my comments here as it is related to your post, it's about Warcraft 3 Night Elf Priestesses of Elune and new class/race combinations:

viewtopic.php?p=18115#p18115
All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

De-standardization of Classes - Immersive Racials [Undead]
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Derikom
Posts: 16

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Derikom » Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:44 pm

If a troll priest can be the same class as a night elf priest and a human priest and we consider that fine, I see no reason the definition of paladin needs to stick so strictly to what a human paladin is. This post is super well-researched and really my only problem is the idea of implementation shared at the end, mostly because I think that's going too far into trying to make night elf paladins conform into the idea of human paladin rather than just exclusively referring to themselves as members of the sisterhood with paladin functionally being a meta classification for gameplay purposes.

Avaendis
Posts: 7

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Avaendis » Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:00 am

Derikom wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:44 pm
If a troll priest can be the same class as a night elf priest and a human priest and we consider that fine, I see no reason the definition of paladin needs to stick so strictly to what a human paladin is. This post is super well-researched and really my only problem is the idea of implementation shared at the end, mostly because I think that's going too far into trying to make night elf paladins conform into the idea of human paladin rather than just exclusively referring to themselves as members of the sisterhood with paladin functionally being a meta classification for gameplay purposes.
I don't disagree, and I'd definitely go a more "unique"/separate root if I believed it could work (And I'm not even sure the more "endemic" Night Elf Path you already find a bit too "humanized" would, hence why there's an even more homogenized Human Path fallback option), but unfortunately, I think a good deal of people in WoW (at least as far as TWoW/Vanilla lore goes) are on the more pedantic side of the Paladin definition, and would require that NE Paladins be closer to the human ones than the Priestesses of the Moon already are in lore.

To be entirely honest I don't think that's too much of a problem either; People who want the restrictive paladin definition can point to the quests to make sense of NE Paladins, NE Paladins themselves can choose to RP as regular Priestesses of Elune. Whether it is the people who think paladins need to wield the Light (capital L) who make the small effort of imagination or us, at the end of the day, what matters is the possibility being given.

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Gheor
Posts: 311

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Gheor » Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:20 am

Derikom wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:44 pm
If a troll priest can be the same class as a night elf priest and a human priest and we consider that fine, I see no reason the definition of paladin needs to stick so strictly to what a human paladin is. This post is super well-researched and really my only problem is the idea of implementation shared at the end, mostly because I think that's going too far into trying to make night elf paladins conform into the idea of human paladin rather than just exclusively referring to themselves as members of the sisterhood with paladin functionally being a meta classification for gameplay purposes.
Perspective thief.
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Narrative Design for Turtle WoW

Zedth0ugh
Posts: 2

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Zedth0ugh » Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:31 pm

Very well thought out post. Would love to see it happen if not just for pure rp value.

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Allwynd01
Posts: 542

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Allwynd01 » Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:07 pm

I don't think it makes any more sense than Forsaken Paladins. For Forsaken Paladins and Priests I have my objections, but for this, it seems fore feasible so I am not 100% against it. If the developers can do it sure, but I can only see it as Forsaken Priest where Shadow is the only source of power and with Night Elf Paladins its Moon power where their abilities are moon-based instead of light based, but that also provokes developing a new class to make it happen.

I think it's more viable to expand some races with existing classes first, rather than developing new classes to fit them lore-wise. And people may not like the results.

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Sinrek
Posts: 1221
Location: England

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Sinrek » Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:59 pm

Look … Night Elves are following the teachings of Elune through their priests, not the Holy Light. That's first. Secondly, paladins are nowhere near to be a warrior or a mediocre priest even. They lack in both departments. Lastly, for any other race than a dwarf, high elf or a human there should be a certain mind-set for an acolyte of the Church and additional training.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Paladin#Background

Night Elves would never become a paladin. Just let it sink…
satisfied_turtle Slowly turtling my way up.

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Kanto123
Posts: 219

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Kanto123 » Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:09 pm

I feel we run into issues with class/race combos because of details that could be altered; for instance, in order to fit the warrior priestess class for night elves, the paladin class could be used but it's class name and spell names changed, perhaps even some of the animations if need be, to match night elf lore better. This way, Night elves would have a class that functions like a Paladin without the lore baggage that the paladin name brings to the class.

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Allwynd01
Posts: 542

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Allwynd01 » Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:52 pm

Sinrek wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:59 pm
Look … Night Elves are following the teachings of Elune through their priests, not the Holy Light. That's first. Secondly, paladins are nowhere near to be a warrior or a mediocre priest even. They lack in both departments. Lastly, for any other race than a dwarf, high elf or a human there should be a certain mind-set for an acolyte of the Church and additional training.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Paladin#Background

Night Elves would never become a paladin. Just let it sink…
You have to forgive people who aren't very versed on the game's lore that class combinations as they currently are, are about 95% complete. A few more races like Humans can get Hunters and a few other combinations, but other than that, not sure. I was thinking about Dwarf Mage and something for Tauren, but for Dwarves, I think they don't want to be mages for a similar reason Night Elves don't want to be games - the Dark Iron Dwarves summoned Ragnaros or something and he destroyed Burning Steppes and Searing Gorge, which originally looked like Redridge Mountains and so forth.

Avaendis
Posts: 7

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Avaendis » Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:50 pm

Allwynd01 wrote:
Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:52 pm
You have to forgive people who aren't very versed on the game's lore that class combinations as they currently are, are about 95% complete.
The problem is that the game's (World of Warcraft's, to be precise) lore has been warped to fit night elves not having paladins.

As I laid out in my post, with a lot of sources, night elves should have something to represent the Priestesses of the Moon being "paladins of Elune" (An idea that only takes quotation marks within the very pedantically limited definition of Paladin within the realm of World of Warcraft; Within D&D, Priestesses of the Moon would be considered proper Paladins of Elune, and one has to wonder if the definition is that way because the class is that way or the opposite - remember that as far as the in-game definition goes, high elf paladins do not exist), and while I agree that Paladins, if one takes their definition to the letter, aren't that...We're not going to get a 10th class to do it.

Essentially there are two choices: NE get Paladins to accurately represent the lore that World of Warcraft only warped (If you read my initial post you'll see that Blizzard did not make Priestesses non-Paladins outside WoW even after Vanilla was released, it is a purely gameplay-induced lore anomaly), or they don't and said part of their lore remains completely absent and keeps f#cking up all the lore outside of WoW with people awkwardly representing the warrior-priestesses of Elune with only one half of their actual lore.

As far as I'm concerned, letting a definition that needs to be interpreted very, very pedantically to even pose a problem (And I'd again remind that if you want to be that pedantic, said definition makes no mention of high elf paladins), erase an entire part of NE lore, is pure madness.

Also I find it odd that to exemplify class/race combinations that according to you don't make sense, you use one that Turtle WoW has actually already added...

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Allwynd01
Posts: 542

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Allwynd01 » Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:20 am

Sure, add Night Elf Paladins as they are, similar to Forsaken Priests as they are with not alterations.

I really don't mind that. I'm not against it, but I think if it has to be accurate, it has to be with some modifications, but that would mean Forsaken Priest should have modifications too, but this IMO is too much work. Right now, I'm eager to see the class changes patch be released so I can play my Melee Hunter, or at least see how it goes.

These new class suggestions sound good on paper, but they are much deeper than that.

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Gheor
Posts: 311

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Gheor » Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:54 am

Allwynd01 wrote:
Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:52 pm
Sinrek wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:59 pm
Look … Night Elves are following the teachings of Elune through their priests, not the Holy Light. That's first. Secondly, paladins are nowhere near to be a warrior or a mediocre priest even. They lack in both departments. Lastly, for any other race than a dwarf, high elf or a human there should be a certain mind-set for an acolyte of the Church and additional training.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Paladin#Background

Night Elves would never become a paladin. Just let it sink…
You have to forgive people who aren't very versed on the game's lore that class combinations as they currently are, are about 95% complete. A few more races like Humans can get Hunters and a few other combinations, but other than that, not sure. I was thinking about Dwarf Mage and something for Tauren, but for Dwarves, I think they don't want to be mages for a similar reason Night Elves don't want to be games - the Dark Iron Dwarves summoned Ragnaros or something and he destroyed Burning Steppes and Searing Gorge, which originally looked like Redridge Mountains and so forth.
Dwarf Mage is already playable.
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Narrative Design for Turtle WoW

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Allwynd01
Posts: 542

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Allwynd01 » Tue Apr 26, 2022 5:24 pm

Gheor wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:54 am
Dwarf Mage is already playable.
I did not pay attention to that, but I'm not surprised as it makes sense.

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Ugoboom
Posts: 750

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Ugoboom » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:08 am

This absolutely needs to happen. Excellent effort post man, we're sorely missing the combination of sentinel fighter with the spiritual side, combined into one. They feel far too disparate and a night elf pally class ingame would complete the feel for what old blizzard was trying to do for the night elf lore.
Zaas - 60 High Elf Warrior
Saere - 60 Night Elf Priest
Splendra - 59 Inferno Mode Warlock
I play a few other classes on my friends' accounts.
Slowly leveling a Resto Dryad and a dorf pally with my buddy.

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Jolikmc
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Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Jolikmc » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:49 am

Well, Blizzard seems to be leaning that way since Legion. Apparently, Zandalari trolls can be paladins, too, as can be tauren for… some reason. And you know… Blood elves figured out a way to syphon The Light from sentient energy things, so sure. Why not.

Just make up some random wolsh and call it a day.
Not currently playing. Just skulking and snarking~

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Ugoboom
Posts: 750

Re: Night Elf Paladins

Post by Ugoboom » Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:32 am

Yep, the moment i saw that night elf pally moment in legion, I know I want to play this. I know i'm not alone

I even rolled on Ascension to get a feel for how it would look and play. It does work, though if spells were colored white instead of yellow, it would be absolutely perfect. Dunno how possible that is to develop.
Zaas - 60 High Elf Warrior
Saere - 60 Night Elf Priest
Splendra - 59 Inferno Mode Warlock
I play a few other classes on my friends' accounts.
Slowly leveling a Resto Dryad and a dorf pally with my buddy.

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