Fugitive Mode & D.C. (UPDATED 5/26/22)

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Jambiya
Posts: 36

Fugitive Mode & D.C. (UPDATED 5/26/22)

Post by Jambiya » Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:25 pm

Disclaimer: This is just an idea. Will appreciate help in fleshing it out for later use. Consider the "Ranks & Effects" sections separate for each version

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DISHONORABLE CONSEQUENCE is not a mode/glyph picked up by the player, but instead a passive feature integrated into the game. The backbone of this mode will rely on placing more consequence for dishonorable player kills. What I'm suggesting here is for the devs to greatly increase the dishonor gained from these actions to the point where reaching Outlaw and Pariah Rank takes fewer kills (players not npc).




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I'd like to suggest additional negative effects (debuff) that would afflict the player as they descend into dishonorable ranks. The debuffs appear at Outlaw Rank and Pariah Ranks will last 2 and 5 hours respectively and disappear on player-kill death (self killing like drowning/falling/npcs don’t count). These can be served as a trigger system for the death effects in the next section.

When a player reaches Dishonored Rank they will suffer no penalty and will simply have to perform an honorable kill.

When a player reaches Exiled Rank they will receive half reputation points when completing quests for any faction. Faction Npc's will sometimes perform negative emotes at them (/spit, /glare, etc.). They still have the option to perform honorable kills to return to normal safely (higher requirement than Dishonored Rank)

When a player reaches Outlaw Rank they will gain an "Outlaw" debuff that permanently flags them for pvp and their name will be added to the bounty board for the opposing faction. This debuff only diminishes with in-game time, so find a safe spot and wait it out. They will no longer gain reputation when completing quests for any faction. Faction Npc's will perform negative emotes at them (/spit, /glare, etc.). Opposite Faction players of all levels can kill you without suffering any dishonor penalty. No redemption, you've made your choice.

When a player reaches Pariah Rank they will gain a "Pariah" debuff that permanently flags them for pvp and their name will be added to the bounty board for BOTH factions. This debuff only diminishes with in-game time, so find a safe spot and wait it out. Pariah player's reputations are reduced to Unfriendly with their own faction and thus can be attacked by their own faction npc/players. Faction npc’s will perform negative emotes (/spit, /rude, /glare). Both Faction players of all levels can kill you without suffering any dishonor penalty. No redemption, you've made your choice.

- Secondary Factions will remain unchanged as Pariah Rank players will now have to use neutral city facilities (vendors, ah, trainers, etc).
- Horde & Alliance Guards may attack them and any player may assist in bringing these criminals to justice!
- Only go to this rank when your ready to suffer the consequences!



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Upon reaching Outlaw Rank and Pariah Rank the fugitive will now receive additional consequences for their actions whenever they are killed by another player. Now in similar fashion to Turtle Mode deaths, when an bOutlaw/Pariah Rank player dies the debuff will "check" to see what killed the fugitive. Was it drowning, falling, mobs, or another player? If its the latter then the debuff will trigger the additional consequences described below. Devs feel free to correct me on whats possible.

When a player reaches Outlaw Rank they will gain an "Outlaw" debuff (2 hours) that permanently flags them for pvp and their name will be added to the bounty board for the opposing faction. This debuff only diminishes with in-game time, so find a safe spot and wait it out. Being a ghost doesn't diminish time! Once those 2 hours are up you will rise to Exiled Rank. Opposite Faction players of all levels can kill you without suffering any dishonor penalty. Upon player kill death you will lose certain items:
- Gold 10%
- Inventory 20%


When a player reaches Pariah Rank they will gain a "Pariah" debuff (5 hours) that permanently flags them for pvp and their name will be added to the bounty board for BOTH factions. This debuff only diminishes with in-game time, so find a safe spot and wait it out. Being a ghost doesn't diminish time! Once those 5 hours are up you will rise to Outlaw Rank and receive the 2 hour debuff. Pariah Rank player reputations are reduced to Unfriendly with their own faction and thus can be attacked by their own faction npc/players. Both Faction players of all levels can kill you without suffering any dishonor penalty. Upon player kill/faction guard death you will lose certain items:
- Gold 70-100%
- Inventory 50-70%
- Equipment 3 slots (random)

If possible I'd like Faction ratings to be reduced even after death with a minimal cap at Neutral even for Pariah Rank players. Fugitive bank items will remain safe. Only wear what you can afford to lose when push comes to shove.

The reason for making the debuff take in-game time is to prevent dishonorable players from simply logging out and avoiding death penalties by Bounty Hunters.

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The purpose of DISHONORABLE CONSEQUENCE is to serve as both passive deterrence and justice respectively. With this mode active the only way a player can descend to these ranks quickly is by consciously attacking/griefing low level players. While its impossible to fully stop these activities, we can make performing specific dishonorable actions have a certain "cost". This cost can ultimately be carried out by the community without having to constantly involve devs.

Hopefully this will also encourage more players to engage in pvp on a relatively even playing field.
*Considering the fact we have a number of active RPPVP guilds on the server, there are times when dishonorable kills naturally occur. I don't want to discourage these RPPVP events where high and low level players can engage in good spirited warcraft. I thought of this feature to only deter excessive ganking of low level players.

If this mode conflicts greatly with the RPPVP guilds on the server, then imo DO NOT IMPLEMENT.*


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Similar to Hardcore Mode players will have to find an unscrupulous NPC in Booty Bay that will sell the Fugitive Glyph or offer it as a quest reward (like HC Mode). Once acquired the glyph/mode cannot be removed by the player without either performing honorable actions (HKs) or by being captured/serving jail time (see DOING TIME & JAILBREAK).

Upon activation the player's honor rank will be instantly reduced to Outlaw Rank. While the mode is active the player cannot gain honor points, but can still lose honor to reach the lower rank. This will allow evil players the ability to decrease their honor ranking faster without excessive griefing.



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When a player with the glyph reaches Outlaw Rank they will be permanently flagged for pvp and their name will be added to the bounty board for the opposing faction. They will no longer gain reputation when completing quests for any faction. Faction Npc's will perform negative emotes at them (/spit, /glare, etc.). No redemption, you've made your choice.

When a player with the glyph reaches Pariah Rank they will be permanently flagged for pvp and their name will be added to the bounty board for BOTH factions. Pariah player's reputations are reduced to Unfriendly with their own faction and thus can be attacked by their own faction npc/players. Faction npc’s will perform negative emotes (/spit, /rude, /glare). No redemption, you've made your choice.

- Secondary Factions will remain unchanged as Pariah Rank players will now have to use neutral city facilities (vendors, ah, trainers, etc).
- Horde & Alliance Guards may attack them and any player may assist in bringing these criminals to justice!
- Only go to this rank when your ready to suffer the consequences!



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Players who accept and complete Bounty Board quests can eventually gain the title of Bounty Hunter under their name (maybe even a tabard). Reward money for this quest should be dependent on the criminal's rank and level (nothing to high to be abusable). Killing an Outlaw/Pariah rank player without the Bounty quest will not yield rewards nor teleport them to prison. Hopefully it's possible for the Bounty Quest text to include the fugitives reported level and name. Keep in mind that once a Bounty Hunter attacks a criminal player they too will become flagged for pvp. Ensure that all criminals are accounted for before engaging!

I have two possible methods of implementation. Devs feel free to correct me on whats possible.

1) Players who become Bounty Hunters by accepting the quest receive a passive effect called "Seeking Justice". This can serve as an identifier for the Bounty Hunter player. Fugitive players who are Outlaw/Pariah Rank will also have a passive effect called "Wanted" which will also serve as an identifier.

Now in similar fashion to Turtle Mode deaths, when an Outlaw/Pariah Rank player dies the mode will "check" to see what killed the fugitive. Was it drowning, falling, mobs, players, or players with the "Seeking Justice" effect? If its the latter then the recently killed fugitive player will be revived and immediately teleported to Gadgetzan Jail.
Or the ghost will be teleported to jail where they are forced to take Rez sickness from the jail spirit healer, damaging gear of course. The Bounty Hunter will then hand in the quest like normal.

2) When players become Bounty Hunters by accepting the quest they will receive an interactive quest item called "Cuffs and Rope". This item can only be used on the dead body of an Outlaw/Pariah Rank player. By using this item, and after the 1 sec cast time, the dead body will be revived and teleported to Gadgetzan Jail.
Or the ghost will be teleported to jail where they are forced to take Rez sickness from the jail spirit healer, damaging gear of course. The Bounty Hunter will then hand in the quest like normal.

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Being sent to Gadgetzan jail as an Outlaw Rank player will have your hearthstone and a small amount of gold and items automatically wiped from your inventory (possible recovery option) like in HC mode. Faction guards could capture instantly. Pariah Rank players will lose a larger amount of the gold and items. Faction guards that attack fugitives can capture instantly.

Fugitive bank items will remain safe, so keep an extra set of gear just incase things don't work out. Only wear what you can afford to lose when push comes to shove.



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DOING TIME
While imprisoned the Outlaw/Pariah cannot group, hearth, or be teleported/summoned. They will have an "imprisoned" debuff preventing those actions and thus ensuring they serve jail time with either ingame or RL sentence, similar to the Touch of Zanzil(ex 1 hour). Higher ranks & levels serve more time. Opposing Outlaw and Pariah Rankplayers can attack each other while imprisoned, however their weapons/gear might be confiscated respectively. Ghosts cannot pass outside the gate and must rez inside the cage.

Currently I think the sentence time should be 1 minute for every level. There's a fine line between reasonable consequence and just punishing the player. Lets say we made the sentence time equal to 2x the player's level. That means a level 20 Outlaw/Pariah Rank player who gets captured must lose 40 minutes of gametime (unless they break out). That might be fine once or twice, but any more and the Fugitive Glyph starts to simply punish the player by interrupting gameplay. Since the imprisoned fugitive already loses items, I don't want to add to the cost of capture even more, lest the player avoid the glyph all together.

Once the time is served the player will be released from prison (teleported out into gadgetzan) with the Fugitive Glyph/Mode removed. Having served their time the player reverts back to a normal rank and they can now gain reputation and use respective faction facilities.Pariah Rank players will only have their faction reputations returned to Neutral. Players will have to acquire a new hearthstone from the innkeeper.

To become a fugitive again players will have to return to Booty Bay and reaccept the glyph.

JAILBREAK

Other fugitive players can try to break out their imprisoned friend by going to war and attacking the Neutral jailor npc. Killing the jailor will allow them to loot two keys. One key opens the prison cage, the other opens the evidence chest. Attacking the jailer will aggro any surrounding guards, so beware. There's always the chance of simply leaving the prisoner to rot, and taking the loot for yourself...

Once taking care of all the guards and acquiring the prison cage key the fugitive can interact with the gate to free their friend (5-10 sec cast).

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Breaking out of prison will eliminate the "imprisoned" debuff on the escaped player allowing them to group, or be summoned. The rescuers can now trade the evidence key to the escaped fugitive. Unless its possible to specifically place all captured fugitives confiscated gear/items into that chest, looting the evidence chest will only give general items (similar to fugitive quests)

The escaped player will have their name back on the respective bounty boards in line with their current dishonored rank. Any escaping criminals & accomplices killed by guards will be captured and serve max jail time. Gear will be lost again.



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FUGITIVE QUEST NPC

Scarlet Smartscrew is the npc that gives you the Glyph of The Fugitive. She will also serve as your eyes and ears for potential marks, scores, and looting opportunities. So long as you at least reach Outlaw Rank you will be able to receive quests from her (no risk, no reward). The quests she has will be divided by zones and levels. Once you out level a zone by a certain degree, the quests become unavailable to prevent ease of abuse (save some for the new blood).

I wanted to give Outlaw and Pariah Rankplayers something to do besides attack town npc's and potentially grief casual players (killing quest npc, flight masters, etc). Ofcourse they can still attack towns and cities, but the price for infamy will only increase...as will the consequences.


FUGITIVE QUEST EXAMPLE

Upon reaching lv 15 Horde/Alliance players of at least Outlaw Rank can now talk to the goblin Scarlet Smartscrew to receive fugitive quests. As a Booty Bay goblin she is well informed about the comings and goings of fresh shipments throughout Azeroth. The price for her information is a simple Finders Fee thats included inside every chest/coffer objective. Turning in this quest item will reward a large amount of experience. The specific quest for the player will go on a 4 hour timer before resetting.


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Certain zones will have quests for Outlaw/Pariah Rank Horde, Alliance, or both. The example above is for the Barrens, Ratchet, and Redridge Mountains. The Horde fugitives will be able to select the Barrens quest about attacking the Bael Modan fortress in the southern Barrens. The Alliance fugitives will be able to select the Redridge Mountains' quest about attacking the Blackrock Orc settlement. There is also a quest to attack Neutral guards that both Horde and Alliance fugitives can do outside of Ratchet.

Each quest will require the Outlaw/Pariah Rank players to raid the locations and make their way to the guarded chest holding both Scarlet's Finders Fee (quest objective) and whatever loot that drops. However the chests are protected by respective elite faction guards of appropriate level. Taking the quest means one of the guards will have the key to the chest on them, therefore they must be killed by the players. Outlaw/Pariah rank players killed by these guards specifically will be "captured" on death and teleported to jail in Gadgetzan.
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Upon successfully acquiring the key, looting the chest, and collecting the Finders Fee the Fugitive quest will be complete (share completion with party). Simply make it back to Scarlet and hand it in for an exp reward. The quest will be available again in another 4 hours. Remember that Pariah rank players can accept both faction Fugitive quests, but they will lose more items if they die to the guards.


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FACTION CAPITAL HIESTS

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Higher level Outlaw/Pariah Rank players will gain access to harder and more rewarding quests. Max level Fugitives will even be able to attack capital cities for high quality chests. These city raids will require more players and organization. Pariah Rank players must be careful attacking their own faction cities as both Guards and law abiding players can attack them.

I would personally vote to allow these chests a small chance to drop faction gear, mounts, items, and etc. This would allow outlaw players a chance to wear opposite faction gear (quartermaster custom items) or ride opposite faction mounts. Considering the risks Outlaw/Pariah players take, this could be a unique reward for said risk.




OLD
As I mentioned above with the evidence chest, there could be other guarded chests/coffers throughout the world with valuable items. These chests can only be accessed by outlaws who accept quests by the Fugitive Glyph npc. Outlaws will have to compete with each other to gain access to these chests, as the respawn rate will be long and varied to prevent camping. They can be guarded by elite guards/monsters for extra challenge (3-5, nothing crazy for the devs sake)

-Level specific quest (10-20, 20-30, etc) that have criminal players try to loot chests guarded by appropriate elite mobs. Low level gives low item pools for reward, while high level gives high quality item pools for reward (also tougher guards).

***Guards for these chests will come in three ways: Horde Faction, Alliance Faction, and Neutral Faction (Goblin). The purpose of the Neutral faction is to have fugitives attack them by checking “going to war” in the rep tab. This way devs won’t have to do extra work having these npc’s only attack Outlaw/Pariah Rank players, we will come to them.

This also means we can create more chests in the world without needing horde or alliance areas specifically.Neutral guard death can diminish neutral rep by a low amount so fugitive players can still use their facilities at Pariah rank*** edited

***On one of the guards themselves there will be a key to loot in order to open the chest. This is to ensure that Outlaw/Pariah rank players must attack the guards to unlock the chest.**** edited

- Each zone (not starters) can have at least one guarded chest for each faction. This will allow Horde/Alliance Outlaw Rank players to go after opposing faction guards (they will attack on site). Pariah Rank players will be able to assault both faction chests as they are unfriendly with both factions upon entering Pariah Rank (both faction guards now attack on site). *edited*

- Different chest can have different items (crafting, armor, weapons, gems, gold, etc.). Coffers with higher quality items may be available within capital cities (preferably away from quest givers, trainers, flight masters, etc).Item pool is nothing so crazy to be farmed or put a huge advantage over law abiding players.

- These coffers can be scattered around the world, and just be protected by 3-5 elite guards that only attack once the chest is activated by a criminal player (with the quest). Outlaw and Pariah Rankplayers will be attacked on site. Guards will have a low aggro and chase range so they cannot be pulled too far while another player steals the loot.

- Outlaw and Pariah Rank players killed by these guards will be captured and sent to jail in gadgetzan with their items removed respectively.

- Since Outlaw and Pariah Rankplayers will lose items/gold/gear when they become captured (or killed by guards), having a way for dishonored players to get valuable items should balance it out.

- Remember while Outlaw Rank players of the same faction cannot attack each other, Pariah Rank players of the same faction CAN attack each other. Will there be honor among thieves, and if so for how long?
*** Idk if an Outlaw/Pariah player can kill/capture another criminal player and send them to jail. Feedback needed.***





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Since Turtle wow is a PVE server I don't want to encourage any actions that would further compel players to grief or harass others (who don't want it). My primary mission for this system is to be a "fair" way for criminal role-players to organically interact with the world without breaking it.

Im hoping an accelerated dishonor system will allow outlaws to kill less civilian npc's to get their desired rank/risk level. The risk of losing items when captured or killed by bounty hunters/guards should make Outlaw/Pariah Rank players think twice before attacking major towns with their best gear. This gives more power/incentive to lawful players who can now ensure greater consequence for outlaw griefing using this system. Crafting now serves a big role for criminal players, adding an additional economic boost for crafters of all levels.

World PVP might rise slightly as now criminal players will be encouraged to stick together to prevent loss of gear/items. This also means that Bounty Hunters will team up as well, and without a death penalty, use their most powerful gear to deliver justice. Pvp minded players can get a kick out of this Cops and Robbers dynamic.

The continuous cycle of gameplay/interaction of this mode will last far longer than other custom features. It can be enjoyed by low level and max level players. It’s also another unique advertising point the server can offer. The last custom feature, Hardcore Mode, has been an invaluable draw in bringing in more players. Hopefully this can be too.

***War Mode***
While I like the idea of constant flagging for pvp, I feel the current iteration of the Glyph of War is partially flawed. I don't believe in creating a glyph/mode that offers only incentive with no mechanical drawback. This is why even though I created Fugitive specific quests, I also put in the penalty of item loss and jail time to even out the risk vs reward system. Pvp on this server is a hot topic, and I feel incentivizing those players with +30%xp does more harm than good in resolving the tension between pvp and pve communities.
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I'll quote Kazgrim here: Dishonor Points viewtopic.php?f=2&t=342&hilit=outlaw
Kazgrim wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:27 am
Dishonor Points

Even among enemies as bitter as the Horde and the Alliance, there is honor. If you flaunt this honor and engage in objectionable PvP play, such as killing new players vastly inferior to you in level, or killing essential non-combat NPCs such as flight masters or quest givers, you will earn dishonor. If you accumulate enough dishonor through your criminal actions, you will be branded an outlaw. As a consequence, you'll suffer experience penalties, lose access to your own faction cities, and become so hated even by your own kind that every faction NPC will attack you on sight.
- WoW game manual. Page 134, "dishonorable kills".

If there are any mistakes or delusions I have on what the client can/cannot do please let me know. Overall this is just an outline and I hope it will serve as a starting point if the devs take an interest. I would still encourage interested players to comment their opinions and critiques.

PLEASE POST BELOW so we can work together and refine this idea. I can almost guarantee I've missed some key element or ground breaking bug/conflict. Help me turtle wow community, your my only hope.
Last edited by Jambiya on Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:43 am, edited 14 times in total.

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Jambiya
Posts: 36

Re: Fugitive Mode (UPDATED 1/21/22)

Post by Jambiya » Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:10 pm

Updated 1/21/22:
- Adjusted the item loss penalty on death for Outlaw and Pariah Rank players.
- Added visuals for Horde, Alliance, and Neutral faction guards.

Duvel
Posts: 16

Re: Fugitive Mode (UPDATED 1/21/22)

Post by Duvel » Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:25 pm

Unfortunately, stopping here
Killing civilian npc and low level players will grant increased dishonor.
You cant implement a mode that give an incentive to kill civilians, because that would break the game for all other players (meaning the vast majority) as quest givers wont be available.

I lived such situation some months ago on Darrowshire. A small group of toxic HL horde players has camped Sentinel hill during 2 weeks 24/7 and killed everyone, NPC and players, with a specific priority: killing Gryan Stoutmantle first.
During 2 weeks you could not take or validate the most important alliance 12-20 quests. And questing in Westfall was impossible for lowbies, which is franckly a big problem. I've seen many people leaving the server because of this.
It only stopped when the "2-persons-staff" finally banned their leader.

This is the nightmare you want to implement here

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Jambiya
Posts: 36

Re: Fugitive Mode (UPDATED 1/21/22)

Post by Jambiya » Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:04 pm

Duvel wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:25 pm
Unfortunately, stopping here
Killing civilian npc and low level players will grant increased dishonor.
You cant implement a mode that give an incentive to kill civilians, because that would break the game for all other players (meaning the vast majority) as quest givers wont be available.

I lived such situation some months ago on Darrowshire. A small group of toxic HL horde players has camped Sentinel hill during 2 weeks 24/7 and killed everyone, NPC and players, with a specific priority: killing Gryan Stoutmantle first.
During 2 weeks you could not take or validate the most important alliance 12-20 quests. And questing in Westfall was impossible for lowbies, which is franckly a big problem. I've seen many people leaving the server because of this.
It only stopped when the "2-persons-staff" finally banned their leader.

This is the nightmare you want to implement here
Well if people feel an increased dishonor from kills is to incentivizing, I also proposed the alternative implementation. That being you accept the fugitive mode and immediately bump to Outlaw Rank with no npc killing involved.

I’ll also add that any players that do decide to greif as you described would also suffer a sever penalty when killed by bounty hunters (loss of items, gold, rep). So those camping horde players would have been killed, lose their stuff, and be jailed to allow normal questing/gameplay to continue. Problem solved. And if they return, it’s rinse and repeat till they’re broke and naked and can’t do anything else.

Duvel
Posts: 16

Re: Fugitive Mode (UPDATED 1/21/22)

Post by Duvel » Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:23 pm

Jambiya wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:04 pm
I’ll also add that any players that do decide to greif as you described would also suffer a sever penalty when killed by bounty hunters (loss of items, gold, rep). So those camping horde players would have been killed, lose their stuff, and be jailed to allow normal questing/gameplay to continue. Problem solved. And if they return, it’s rinse and repeat till they’re broke and naked and can’t do anything else.
The major issue here is the server being PVE. So you can't really start a crusade, nor have an effective bounty hunting, against griefers/toxic/greykillers, because they can just hide 5 minutes and make fun of you once unflagged PVP. Your approach can't never work on a PVE server IMO. Except if those players are perma flaggued PVP.

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Jambiya
Posts: 36

Re: Fugitive Mode (UPDATED 1/21/22)

Post by Jambiya » Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:16 pm

Duvel wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:23 pm
Jambiya wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:04 pm
I’ll also add that any players that do decide to greif as you described would also suffer a sever penalty when killed by bounty hunters (loss of items, gold, rep). So those camping horde players would have been killed, lose their stuff, and be jailed to allow normal questing/gameplay to continue. Problem solved. And if they return, it’s rinse and repeat till they’re broke and naked and can’t do anything else.
The major issue here is the server being PVE. So you can't really start a crusade, nor have an effective bounty hunting, against griefers/toxic/greykillers, because they can just hide 5 minutes and make fun of you once unflagged PVP. Your approach can't never work on a PVE server IMO. Except if those players are perma flaggued PVP.
Jambiya wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:25 pm

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When a player with the glyph reaches Outlaw Rank they will be permanently flagged for pvp and their name will be added to the bounty board for the opposing faction. They will no longer gain reputation when completing quests for any faction. Faction Npc's will perform negative emotes at them (/spit, /glare, etc.). No redemption, you've made your choice.

When a player with the glyph reachesPariah Rank they will be permanently flagged for pvp and their name will be added to the bounty board for BOTH factions. Pariah player's reputations are reduced to Unfriendly with their own faction and thus can be attacked by their own faction npc/players. Faction npc’s will perform negative emotes (/spit, /rude, /glare). No redemption, you've made your choice.

- Secondary Factions will remain unchanged as Pariah Rank players will now have to use neutral city facilities (vendors, ah, trainers, etc).
- Horde & Alliance Guards may attack them and any player may assist in bringing these criminals to justice!
- Only go to this rank when your ready to suffer the consequences!
Gotch you fam, I know it’s a lot to read at once.

The only escape is death or turning yourself in once reaching outlaw/pariah rank. Plus since turtle is xfaction knowing where and when a bounty is online is quite easy.

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Sinrek
Posts: 946

Re: Fugitive Mode (UPDATED 1/21/22)

Post by Sinrek » Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:04 pm

I'm sure the team will have a look at this suggestion since we wanted to bring something similar anyway, alas, not right now, but one day for sure.
satisfied_turtle Slowly turtling my way up.

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Jambiya
Posts: 36

Re: Fugitive Mode (UPDATED 1/21/22)

Post by Jambiya » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:26 pm

Well that’s some hopeful news. Until then I’ll continue to make updates when inspiration hits.

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Coun
Posts: 21

Re: Fugitive Mode (UPDATED 1/21/22)

Post by Coun » Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:27 pm

I can only say that I quote this often. :D The scope is huge, but please just now that this post is a great source of inspiration. Thank for you for the (also visually!) great pitch.

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Jambiya
Posts: 36

Re: Fugitive Mode (UPDATED 1/21/22)

Post by Jambiya » Wed Mar 23, 2022 4:33 pm

Coun wrote:
Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:27 pm
I can only say that I quote this often. :D The scope is huge, but please just now that this post is a great source of inspiration. Thank for you for the (also visually!) great pitch.
Thank you for your support. I'm glad this could be of some use smiling_turtle

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Jambiya
Posts: 36

Re: Fugitive Mode (UPDATED 3/23/22)

Post by Jambiya » Wed Mar 23, 2022 4:33 pm

Updated 3/23/22:

FUGITIVE LITE
- Introducing FUGITIVE LITE: a less intensive mode that revolves around placing passive consequences for dishonorable player kills.

FUGITIVE FULL
- Changed the effect of the Fugitive Mode to instantly bring player honor to Outlaw Rank to avoid any need to grief.

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Jambiya
Posts: 36

Re: Fugitive Mode (UPDATED 4/15/22)

Post by Jambiya » Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:24 pm

Updated 4/15/22:

DISHONORABLE CONSEQUENCE
- Changed FUGITIVE LITE to DISHONORABLE CONSEQUENCE since it seemed more appropriate.
- Reduced the death penalty for Outlaw Rank players since a few players enjoy having the title just for the aesthetics, and don't actively engage in greifing (not sure how many).
- Considering the number of active RPPVP guilds on the server, if this mode conflicts with them too much then I would argue AGAINST its implementation. This idea was only to deter excessive griefing, nothing else.

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Jambiya
Posts: 36

Re: Fugitive Mode (UPDATED 5/26/22)

Post by Jambiya » Thu May 26, 2022 11:36 pm

Updated 5/26/22:

DISHONORABLE CONSEQUENCE
- Changed the Outlaw & Pariah debuff to only diminish with in-game time. This means no logging out to escape possible death penalties from Bounty Hunters.

Oswani
Posts: 15

Re: Fugitive Mode & D.C. (UPDATED 5/26/22)

Post by Oswani » Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:31 pm

I like the idea of a realtime debuff on criminal players so they have to actually find a hideout to avoid death penalties. Since the server is still xfaction, manhunts will be more tense in tracking fugitive players.

High level players still go around killing low level warmode players in starting zones, so it be a great way to actually curb that behavior if the dishonorable consequences can be implemented.

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Jolikmc
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Re: Fugitive Mode & D.C. (UPDATED 5/26/22)

Post by Jolikmc » Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:19 pm

I'd love to see this implemented, but I feel like something like this might actually not actually work as intended. Like, as it stands, I'm not sure most players even bother with trying to track down culprits who wipe small towns off the face of the map. Now, a cash incentive that scales to the notoriety and level of a "wanted" player might, well, incentivize vigilantism, but there's one major problem that I see with the idea as presented.
Jambiya wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:16 pm
The only escape is death or turning yourself in […]
It seems like a player who's bored with being "wanted" can just, for example, jump off Teldrassil and clear their bounty. I know this is the most "lore-friendly" way to go about things – dead is dead, no matter how you slice it – but it seems a bit too easy… Well… "easy", provided an Outlaw / Pariah can wiggle their way out of a sticky PvP situation. I suppose it could be looked at as the ultimate taunt, doing enough damage to become a Pariah and then killing themselves before any player can collect a bounty…

I dunno. It's a fun idea but it definitely needs some fine-tuning.
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Jambiya
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Re: Fugitive Mode & D.C. (UPDATED 5/26/22)

Post by Jambiya » Sat Jun 04, 2022 6:03 pm

Well I would argue the reason most high levels don't bother attacking culprits is because their is no consequence to the act. That's what I wanted to try and solve with the Dishonorable Consequences section. Not only will griefing players receive a debuff that only diminished in game, but upon dying to a player they lose a portion of their gear/items/gold.

You make a great point about players trying to wait out the debuff as a ghost. I'll make a note of that in the section, thank you.

In the quote you mentioned I meant only death by Bounty Hunter, not general death as the issue you mentioned would keep happening otherwise. I like the idea of cash rewards for Bounty Hunting, but both cases make it easy to acheive at least outlaw rank. It might be too easy to abuse if the cash reward was too high, so I made sure to comment on restricting it.

Thanks for the interest, and your right that this idea certainly isn't perfect. Please comment any more suggestions or concerns I might have missed.

Turtlemonster
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Re: Fugitive Mode & D.C. (UPDATED 5/26/22)

Post by Turtlemonster » Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:38 pm

I like these general ideas.

I played turtlewow for a bit but decided it wasn't for me as I am a PvP realm player and turtle doesn't quite cut it for me.

What I found made warmode toxic for me personally is that being on a PvE server, only a few people are invested in pvping. Most are instead in it just to level up. So if you get attacked...all the other guys just stand there lol. Need that tent resting bonus.

When I played on PvP servers, players would hunt down gankers not because they cared about gankers -- heck they probably did it themselves -- but just so that they could PvP more. So ironically I guess, I really didn't have much of a problem with gankers and dishonorable kills when I played on PvP servers.

It happened from time to time, but then a bunch of 60s would roll in and crush them and that was that.

Turtlemonster
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Re: Fugitive Mode & D.C. (UPDATED 5/26/22)

Post by Turtlemonster » Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:39 pm

A couple of suggestions in general

GUARDS AT ARENA
Because tents are such a huge part of TurtleWow, and there is a port in Org/SW, I believe there should be guards stationed at the Gurubashi Arena. That, or make it a neutral zone. Of all the times I was killed by a higher level person, it was probably 90% in the Arena, where I was surrounded by other players under a tent and couldn't even see who was attacking me. Simply making it hard or impossible to kill lowbies in the Arena who are just there to get Tent XP would get rid of most of the griefing in Warmode.

REMOVE WARMODE XP BONUS, REPLACE WITH REWARDS LIKE TURTLE/HARDCORE MODE
It's turtlewow, not speedywow, so I always felt xp bonuses don't quite fit. This is especially the case for Warmode. I think the rewards should be changed to be more like those of Turtle or HC modes. Unique tabard. Unique illusions. Access to special pvp gear. Hey, maybe a buff to spirit speed like the Night Elves have. This would better reflect the WAR-like nature of Warmode and prevent people from activating the mode if they just want extra xp. Warmode should be for World PvP ONLY and the benefits should reflect that.

Turtlemonster
Posts: 7

Re: Fugitive Mode & D.C. (UPDATED 5/26/22)

Post by Turtlemonster » Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:17 am

Various modes shouldn't be punishing for no reason. Turtlemode is slower and allows players to do more content on one character, for those who like to explore and level in all the zones. The lower xp rate isn't there simply to be an inconvenience. It's a CHALLENGE, not a PUNISHMENT.

As I see it, Warmode currently is a PUNISHMENT, not a challenge. It's just an excuse for players to grief you. Warmode should be about always having to be ready to fight at any moment (like regular PvP servers) and not randomly getting one shot and then having to corpse walk back...only to be one shot yet again...

Dying to players is a part of PvP, it is a challenge, but being insta-killed is just a punishment.

So for however this Fugitive system works, remember that it is a CHALLENGE and not a PUNISHMENT.

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Re: Fugitive Mode & D.C. (UPDATED 5/26/22)

Post by Jambiya » Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:49 pm

Turtlemonster wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:17 am
Various modes shouldn't be punishing for no reason. Turtlemode is slower and allows players to do more content on one character, for those who like to explore and level in all the zones. The lower xp rate isn't there simply to be an inconvenience. It's a CHALLENGE, not a PUNISHMENT.

As I see it, Warmode currently is a PUNISHMENT, not a challenge. It's just an excuse for players to grief you. Warmode should be about always having to be ready to fight at any moment (like regular PvP servers) and not randomly getting one shot and then having to corpse walk back...only to be one shot yet again...

Dying to players is a part of PvP, it is a challenge, but being insta-killed is just a punishment.

So for however this Fugitive system works, remember that it is a CHALLENGE and not a PUNISHMENT.
I agree completely. I choose warmode because I want to let people MY LEVEL know I’m interested in pvp. The xp boost certainly does more to encourage high level players to add “difficulty” to the mode since there is no draw back.

If wow didn’t have such power creeps on level gaps, or even implemented a scale-down system for high levels in low level zones, there wouldn’t be a need for the Dishonorable Consequences section.

I don’t know how hard it would be to add level restrictions on attacking warmode players like HC mode (only being able to group/attack within 5 levels). If that’s not possible then I figure the next best thing would be to deincentivise greifing with a negative system.

Like in the disclosure, I argue the implementation only if it does not interfere with the rp-pvp guilds that would engage in consenting pvp with wide level ranges.

Perhaps only having the greifing death of warmode players cause the Outlaw/Pariah debuff? Though if I recall rp pvp guilds like blacktooth all use warmode.

Idk it’s all just an idea/talking point at the moment. Thanks for your input.

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