tauren priests?

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Augustfenix85
Posts: 28

Re: tauren priests?

Post by Augustfenix85 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:13 pm

Tauren Rogue would be my preferred choice. But with the melee hunter addition coming I can settle for that.

If anything with a horde race getting priests I could see Orc only because of where they are from and maybe learning from the lost one Draenai
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Rafale
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Re: tauren priests?

Post by Rafale » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:58 pm

Please no, Spirit Walkers are shamans and tauren shamans gonna have spirit link anyway.

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Kazgrim
Posts: 341

Re: tauren priests?

Post by Kazgrim » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:56 pm

Spiritwalkers are not classical WoW shamans. They are mystics, which deal with the afterlife and the spirits of their ancestors. Classical WoW shamans deal with elemental spirits, forces of nature. They do not focus on communing with the dead, whereas Spiritwalkers do.
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Merikkinon
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Re: tauren priests?

Post by Merikkinon » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:55 pm

Reploidrocsa wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:48 am
if it were for me, i would make druids&paladins Alliance only while Shamans&Warlocks horde only.
.

Absolutely.

Inclusion-ism is overrated, under-perceived as to its capacity to dilute story, lore, gaming, etc.

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Kalocsa
Posts: 36

Re: tauren priests?

Post by Kalocsa » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:42 am

Sinrek wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:22 pm
No.

We do not touch those atrocities committed by ActiBlizzurd.
God bless you Sinrek, you'll go to paradise i ensure you.
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Lahire
Posts: 139

Re: tauren priests?

Post by Lahire » Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:04 am

Augustfenix85 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:13 pm
Tauren Rogue would be my preferred choice.
Sure the 2m10 cow with big stomping hooves can be sneaky lmao.
Good joke.
Kazgrim wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:56 pm
Spiritwalkers are not classical WoW shamans. They are mystics, which deal with the afterlife and the spirits of their ancestors. Classical WoW shamans deal with elemental spirits, forces of nature. They do not focus on communing with the dead, whereas Spiritwalkers do.
As WoW shaman is a fusion of the 3 WC3 spirit units, this aspect is present in the class too. WoW shaman isn't just elements, it also has a rez that references the Ancestors (Ancestral Spirit) ; it has the Ankh ; it has Chain Heal that resembles the Chain Link. And all the textbox in game about the ancestors, the spirit world, etc.
This aspect has been reinforced during retail (spirit form...), but it was ofc present since vanilla. This class is really a mash up :
- Totems are from the troll witch doctor
- Ancestral Spirit, chain heal, ancestral lore from the tauren spirit walker
- All the elemental stuff + purge from the orc shaman
- Ankh is from tauren chieftain
- the troll hero has the same thematic (chain heal and ward)

This thematic, which can be called "tribal magic", was a continuum during WC3 used to inspire more than 1 class (priest has parts of it). It's not 1 = 1, but most aspects of wow shaman come from this tribal theme.
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Mac
Posts: 87

Re: tauren priests?

Post by Mac » Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:09 am

Augustfenix85 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:13 pm
Tauren Rogue would be my preferred choice. But with the melee hunter addition coming I can settle for that.
A tauren rogue isn't as completely, totally, 100% outlandish as some people might think given that Grimtotem bandits and Grimtotem ruffians are in game, although you could argue they aren't strictly rogues. So only, like, 99% outlandish.
Afaslizo wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:13 pm
Before I even consider Tauren priests I sooner consider Tauren mages because of the Tauren boss in Blackrock Depths. He might be Twilight Hammer but since that cult actually should prefer Shadow Priests it appears that Taurens are not able to become them else he would have been one. So in-game example dictates that arcane and elemental magic is far mor likely than priesthood.

I agree though that Tauren Mage is a bit silly. There is not really any additional existing class that fits with the Tauren race at the moment. If Turtle ever adds any custom classes that might change but I don't see that happen.
There's also Grimtotem sorcerers and Grimtotem geomancers in game to support tauren mages. Maybe we could get tauren mages and dwarf mages at the exact same time.

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Kazgrim
Posts: 341

Re: tauren priests?

Post by Kazgrim » Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:55 am

Lahire wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:04 am
Yes, a WoW shaman is a jack of trades master of none. Whether you classify a spiritwalker as a shaman or a priest, it doesn't really matter because the spiritwalker is not entirely either. The term shaman, like you've pointed out, is ambiguous and is an umbrella term. When it comes to tribal races, a shaman and a priest are the same thing (until you make the distinction when it comes to communing with the elements) - which is why you often see people saying a troll shaman or priest can fulfill the role of a witch doctor.
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Lahire
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Re: tauren priests?

Post by Lahire » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:41 am

Yes ; and it was consciously that the designers didn't do a 1=1 between WC3 and WoW. Most wow classes are a generic "umbrella" for a spectrum of warcraft characters. For example, Warrior represents Demon Hunter, Blademaster, but also the grunt, the footman, etc. All these styles are part of the warrior identity and you can reconstruct analogs of them with the talent and gear systems.

K. Jordan says this decision was conscious. Because by doing it this way, the designers thought it would stimulate more the fantasy and imagination of players. Instead of accepting a narrow identity (for ex: "Spirit Walker"), the player can reconstruct it with their own class/talent/race/gear choices, or build something entirely new.
This is good design.

I think they didn't entirely succeeded applying this rule to all the classes though. The paladin is a narrow fantasy : it's Uther and that's it. As the priest has a shadow spec to simulate troll and undead cultures, they imo should have done a "fallen paladin" spec to simulate Arthas ; a death knight spec if you will. But well, it wasn't ever discussed apparently (DK was thought as a "heroic class").
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Kazgrim
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Re: tauren priests?

Post by Kazgrim » Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:59 pm

iirc a developer did mention their desire to introduce hero classes or at least spells reminiscent of wc3 heroes at level 40. That would've been a cool transition to see a paladin become a death knight.
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Lahire
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Re: tauren priests?

Post by Lahire » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:46 pm

Kazgrim wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:59 pm
iirc a developer did mention their desire to introduce hero classes or at least spells reminiscent of wc3 heroes at level 40. That would've been a cool transition to see a paladin become a death knight.
Before the talent system was created, the designers dabbled with the idea of "hero class" (demon hunter notably). It would have been a specialization at the end of leveling you could take from quests, to bring your character into a more narrow but more powerful class, more like the WC3 heroes.
It was dimmed too linear and not interesting enough. So it was abandoned. After iterations, they invented a far more creative system : the talent trees (which is imo a revolutionary system for the RPG genre that influenced numerous games).

The new team took again the concept of "hero class" during WotLK with the Death Knight, but in a new way : the player unlocks the ability to create a new character of this hero class which doesn't begin at lvl 1 and is more powerful than most classes.
My opinion is the WotLK take on the hero class is not a great idea.

My take is : the "hero class" is an appealing concept on paper (hence the fact it was tried multiple times) but it is extremely difficult to pull off correctly. The best implementation of it imo is the Jedi class in Star Wars Galaxy : so hard and long to obtain that it was miraculous when 1 player had it. If half the player base is a "hero class", it loses all meaning.
But of course, each player wants to be the hero of their own story, so they all ask to obtain the hero class more easily. It produces a conflict between players and designers, and frustration (see what happened during Galaxy). Either the designers give in to the players and the game becomes a herofest (with lost of integrity to the game), or the designers don't give in and players rant endlessly : so the "hero class" concept is better left untouched...
Last edited by Lahire on Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Coun
Posts: 48

Re: tauren priests?

Post by Coun » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:56 pm

Kazgrim wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:09 am
A tauren priest makes as much sense as a troll priest.

The term priest is ambiguous. It's not just a follower of the Holy Light, nor a worshipper of Elune. It's a term to designate a magic user that uses DIVINE magic. Do shamans or druids use divine magic? They do not.

The closest thing to priests in tauren culture are spiritwalkers, who are imbued with the powers of their spirit ancestors. The source of their power is arguably divine, if you consider spirits from the afterlife as divine creatures.

The class mechanics of priest in WoW are not exactly those you'd expect of a spiritwalker, but then again the mechanics don't make sense for most of the races.

Possible tauren racials? There's two they could use.

http://classic.battle.net/war3/orc/unit ... lker.shtml
Spirit Walkers can very easily be represented by shamans since the spiritual aspect is already very much incorporated into that classes lore.

I will also never unstand people asking for "class balance" among races. There is no such thing. If anything, limited class coices add character and uniqueness to races.

/ Also, in later lore, spirit walkers are much more described as something Tauren are born into and is less a profession, but more a fait, a stigma even. Any tauren can be a spiritwalker - be it a warrior, a shaman or a merchant. Since there basically is no WC3/Vanilla lore on Spirit Walkers, I feel it's a good idea to look at later interpretations of what they are.

Warmane
Posts: 11

Re: tauren priests?

Post by Warmane » Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:04 am

Sinrek wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:22 pm
No.

We do not touch those atrocities committed by ActiBlizzurd.
you guys litteraly copied some spells from Wotlk in the changes coming with 1.16

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Siinda
Posts: 6

Re: tauren priests?

Post by Siinda » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:03 pm

I would love to see paladin and shaman go cross faction officially as playable chars. Tauren paladins are cannon in actiV world and even go with the "pulled from human cultures" logic idea. I wouldn't recommend them as first choice myself but if I have to be a sun worshipping cow to play horde paladin I would get beefy with it.

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Sinrek
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Re: tauren priests?

Post by Sinrek » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:11 am

Warmane wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:04 am
Sinrek wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:22 pm
No.

We do not touch those atrocities committed by ActiBlizzurd.
you guys litteraly copied some spells from Wotlk in the changes coming with 1.16
Bring up examples.
satisfied_turtle Slowly turtling my way up.

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Gheor
Posts: 211

Re: tauren priests?

Post by Gheor » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:29 am

Warmane wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:04 am
Sinrek wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:22 pm
No.

We do not touch those atrocities committed by ActiBlizzurd.
you guys litteraly copied some spells from Wotlk in the changes coming with 1.16

The spells were created from scratch to fit Vanilla.

Even if our spellmaker took inspiration from another expansion they were not downported or copy pasted.
A sheet of paper and a pen can give birth to many things.

Gheor

Kratos

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