Changes to MELEE HUNTER

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Allwynd01
Posts: 206

Re: Changes to MELEE HUNTER

Post by Allwynd01 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:32 pm

I think the main problem with a melee Hunter at this point before the class changes are implemented is that the Hunter's DPS output is very low.

After deciding to play a melee-only Hunter just to prepare mentally for the changes, even not using a ranged weapon for the sake of going full-melee, I realized how lacking the abilities are.

Aspect of the Monkey + Mongoose Bite is something that happens very rarely.
Raptor Strike has too long of a cooldown.
Wing Clip is completely useless as a melee ability, even more so when it isn't combined with ranged combat.


My suggestions to fix this are as follows:

- Make Aspect of the Wolf also provide some of the dodge chance of Aspect of the Monkey, or somehow to trigger Mongoose Bite a bit more.
- Raptor Strike needs a shorter cooldown.
- Wing Clip should have some increased damage so it serves some actual purpose, because in this scenario slowing the enemy's speed seems utterly pointless.
- If Wing Clip's damage won't be buffed, at least add another melee ability beside this new one called Lacerate or whatever it's going to be.

Geojak
Posts: 300

Re: Changes to MELEE HUNTER

Post by Geojak » Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:06 pm

A spec pf Wolf could give proc changes to trigger mongoose bite activstion even without dodging on attack swings.
Msg

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Allwynd01
Posts: 206

Re: Changes to MELEE HUNTER

Post by Allwynd01 » Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:08 pm

Geojak wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:09 pm
I think it could be cool if meele hunters habe a way to trade their pet for extra combat power in meele. Meele hunter shouldn't have a tanking pet anymore imo.
I also disagree on this, pets are what defines Hunters and sets them apart, like Warlock's minions.

If you take a Warlock's minions away, it becomes a different flavor of Mage, if you take a Hunter's pet away, it effectively becomes some mixture between a Warrior and a Rogue. Also Hunter pets are fun because they add new and fun mechanics:

- if they die or get dismissed, they lose happiness and if they stay unhappy for too long they can lose loyalty
- happiness determines their damage so you have to feed them every now and then
- if they lose all loyalty they escape
- you can use pets for interesting pulls - I discovered one where I shoot at a pack of mobs, who I can't defeat at all, retreat back, they all chase me, then I set the pet who is on Passive to attack the one I attacked and then I used Feign Death and the other mobs would return to their original location and I would fight just one mob


In contrast Warlock's minions don't have the majority of these mechanics, the Mage (if it has Water elemental in Vanilla, don't know for sure) also doesn't have these mechanics.

Vladis
Posts: 8

Re: Changes to MELEE HUNTER

Post by Vladis » Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:56 pm

Dear all, I would like to revive the debate on melee hunter. There are some great changes proposed here and I think they have great merit. CC traps do not have to be usable in combat but dps traps such as explo and flame trap could be changed in such way. MB and CA should scale in damage in some way and under the new Aspect of the Wolf should be made used without the parry and dodge conditions (for example as I proposed, to proc from melee and pet crits). I think there is huge space to introduce lore-friendly Rexxar-like melee hunter/beast master and still be true to vanilla gameplay. Thank you Raukodor for pointing me to this discussion. Given the newest patch notes, I think we should go few steps further with changed to melee hunter.

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Raukodor
Posts: 305

Re: Changes to MELEE HUNTER

Post by Raukodor » Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:34 pm

True melee hunter is Bm so yes. Should have some synergy with the pet.

Maybe the flurry from improved wolf aspect could come from pet attacks too (and benefict the pet too)

Or mongoose proccing from crits/pet crits

And even gaining some buff from raptor/mongoose/lacerate wich put a debuff that increases the melee damage recived from the hunter and his pet

As i said a lot of times. The main issue is the scaling. All.melee skills dont scale with ap. Neither the pet. Maybe making a passive wich increases the stats of the pet a % from the hunter
Khanzo. Blademaster and Explorer

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Raukodor
Posts: 305

Re: Changes to MELEE HUNTER

Post by Raukodor » Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:46 pm

Another suggestion about adding new pet family's skill
Khanzo. Blademaster and Explorer

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Raukodor
Posts: 305

Re: Changes to MELEE HUNTER

Post by Raukodor » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:03 am

Khanzo. Blademaster and Explorer

Garish
Posts: 44

Re: Changes to MELEE HUNTER

Post by Garish » Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:14 pm

changes that I think make sense now(with the new talents) to make melee hunter viable(off-metabuild in pve(raids) or pvp)
1- better melee attack power scalling for melee skills(raptor strike as a "fill spell" like heroic strike, moogoose strike as a overpower skill damage wise)
2- survival hunter(?in wolf aspect?) able to put traps in combat.
3- lacerate(bleed based on melee ap) with a -healing debuff only usable in wolf aspect after parry/dodge or melee crit
4- more bosses with "aoe phases"(mob rush) for our entrapment(talent) frost trap strat usage
5- a dream... a attack skill with buff: that 1-advances the bleeding dot damage from lacerate 2- gives blade fury/sweeping strikers(hitting + mobs at once) call it "BLOODBATH".its a form of aoe in raids and "niche pvp" usage.

that would make "viable" a Attack speed aoe melee hunter build.

How about that guys? seems reasonable?
Last edited by Garish on Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Jesterjacks
Posts: 15

Re: Changes to MELEE HUNTER

Post by Jesterjacks » Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:21 pm

For the sake of keeping stuff in one post, I'll copy what I wrote myself here

My opinion: As it is, melee hunter is best done with Marskmanship because of the aura. If the server aims for melee hunter, perhaps survival should be the tree.

I'd like to suggest a talent that allows us to proc mongoose without dodge.

Another suggestion would be talent in survival to allow dps traps in combat

Wyvern sting replaced with something more fitting and/or an option between it and something melee.

Last suggestion is a buff to melee abilities, they scale horribly.

Kerenis
Posts: 4

Re: Changes to MELEE HUNTER

Post by Kerenis » Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:22 pm

Raukodor wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:14 am
Any response to this? More melee hunters agree?
Ive been playing with the idea that AotW should turn all shots into melee skills, but I dont think the engine would allow such level of programming

Garish
Posts: 44

Re: Changes to MELEE HUNTER

Post by Garish » Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:58 pm

Kerenis wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:22 pm
Raukodor wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:14 am
Any response to this? More melee hunters agree?
Ive been playing with the idea that AotW should turn all shots into melee skills, but I dont think the engine would allow such level of programming
"I dont think the engine would allow such level of programming" i think the same
look at my take on melee hunter changes

Vladis
Posts: 8

Re: Changes to MELEE HUNTER

Post by Vladis » Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:19 pm

Raukodor wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:14 am
Any response to this? More melee hunters agree?
Yeah, we have to keep this debate alive. It would be great for melee hunters. The latest changes went the right direction.

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Raukodor
Posts: 305

Re: Changes to MELEE HUNTER

Post by Raukodor » Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:04 pm

Yeah some time a go we talk about wolf aspect turns all shots into strikes

Wyvern strike. Arcane strike. Multi strike...

Those + skills scaling with ap could be a good idea. And melee hunter dont have any cleave damage so multi strike could solve this
Khanzo. Blademaster and Explorer

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Raukodor
Posts: 305

Re: Changes to MELEE HUNTER

Post by Raukodor » Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:06 pm

But i dont know if its possible. And with the new shot turned into a kind of spammeable heroic strike (raptor is better with talent but have 5 sec cd talented)
Khanzo. Blademaster and Explorer

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