Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

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Gheor
Posts: 186

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Gheor » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:45 am

No, the whole point is to have less teleporters in the game, not to fill it with them.

The argument of it takes too long and some of the group members have to leave is satirical.

This is a WORLD and I'd like to stay that way, if you want to be ported ask a mage, or grab a warlock.
A sheet of paper and a pen can give birth to many things.

Gheor

Kratos

Karmax
Posts: 24

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Karmax » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:20 am

Gheor wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:45 am
No, the whole point is to have less teleporters in the game, not to fill it with them.

I agree - yet we have stuff like Wormhole Generator and Gurubashi Arena Port...
I have no mount and I must scream.

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Hardwelsam
Posts: 86
Location: Hungary, Szeged

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Hardwelsam » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:48 am

Alright.
I'm agreed any type of change.
I'm just hopeless to getting less newbie toxic playerbase.
If that even possible
In wow.

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Lahire
Posts: 78

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Lahire » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:58 am

Karmax wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:20 am
Gheor wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:45 am
No, the whole point is to have less teleporters in the game, not to fill it with them.
I agree - yet we have stuff like Wormhole Generator and Gurubashi Arena Port...
You are right: to solve this contradiction, they should be removed from the game.
Main: Whitemare

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Gheor
Posts: 186

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Gheor » Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:12 am

You will see how we deal with those soon enough.
A sheet of paper and a pen can give birth to many things.

Gheor

Kratos

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Lichenwitch
Posts: 49

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Lichenwitch » Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:37 pm

Gheor wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:12 am
You will see how we deal with those soon enough.
👀
satisfied_turtle_head Jules, the Satyr insidious_turtle

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Merikkinon
Posts: 208

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Merikkinon » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:41 am

Lichenwitch wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:37 pm
Gheor wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:12 am
You will see how we deal with those soon enough.
👀
NO JOKE !?!?!

dead_turtle_head

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Merikkinon
Posts: 208

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Merikkinon » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:46 am

Gheor wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:45 am
No, the whole point is to have less teleporters in the game, not to fill it with them.

The argument of it takes too long and some of the group members have to leave is satirical.

This is a WORLD and I'd like to stay that way, if you want to be ported ask a mage, or grab a warlock.
Yeah, agreed. I hate to say it, I have gotten used to having the stone and wormhole. But one of the negatives of Blizzard caving to the instant gratification crowd ("I"m not instant gratification, I just don't want to spend time traveling" - well, in a world that has that as an aspect, getting zapped somewhere IS an act of instant gratification).... anyhow, one of the negatives was that it started to throttle the unique abilities of other players. Players became less important. Instead of some level of specialization (hello those of you who took sociology), the world goes backward because everyone can start to do the same things and has little need for others ("Oh, I actually do need you -- to tank so I can get my gear.".. PFFFFFTTT)

An adjustment, but it's Vanilla.

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Vaporizer7
Posts: 3

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Vaporizer7 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:58 am

I dream of tp Stone in vanilla. It would save us so much time ! You keep the rpg advenutre aspect since it required 3 persons and you avoid all this time lost waiting the 4th or 5th member who had a setback.
Save us time

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Sinrek
Posts: 788

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Sinrek » Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:14 pm

Each extra teleportation makes WORLD even smaller even though it's already scaled down at least 3 times from what it is supposed to be lore-wise.

Personally, I'd like to see even Hearthstone removed and respawn of mobs in instances increased by 3 times. This way there would be much more sense for players to actually clear those entirely and run those multiple times increasing those rare drops chances.
satisfied_turtle Slowly turtling my way up.

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Lahire
Posts: 78

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Lahire » Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:36 am

Vaporizer7 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:58 am
I dream of tp Stone in vanilla. It would save us so much time ! You keep the rpg advenutre aspect since it required 3 persons and you avoid all this time lost waiting the 4th or 5th member who had a setback.
Save us time
At the cost of the integrity of the vanilla design.
I value far more the integrity of the design than some minutes saved.
The wait time is incidentally a good thing : it often gives you time to chat with your group, make friends, evaluate your partners (this one is the funny guy, this one is the shy guy, etc). Wait time is actually a social time. In a MMO, waiting is gameplay, because social is one of the three core pillars of vanilla design.
When you bastardize it, you obtain the degenerate "go-go-go" culture of retail wow (always running, not even "hi", speedrun and quit).

According to original designer, vanilla design has 3 pillars : world, social and character progression.
Easy TP sabotages 2 of the 3 pillars.
Main: Whitemare

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Merikkinon
Posts: 208

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Merikkinon » Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:31 pm

Sinrek wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:14 pm
Each extra teleportation makes WORLD even smaller even though it's already scaled down at least 3 times from what it is supposed to be lore-wise.

Personally, I'd like to see even Hearthstone removed and respawn of mobs in instances increased by 3 times. This way there would be much more sense for players to actually clear those entirely and run those multiple times increasing those rare drops chances.
Truthfully, you'd experience a severe dropoff to the most dedicated, hardcore players and people who must be independently wealthy (or somehow mooching the hell out of some system).

The issue with TP stones is, they make me more committed to sticking with it for a dungeon. I had to get there, maybe a flight, but definitely a run and walk into, say, WC. "I wanna stick this out. I hope you will, too."

Make things super-easy and people just act worse. We have several WoW expansions that demonstrate that.

OTOH, going super-restrictive or hardcore can make people say, "Nah". Because you *have* to put in a greater reward for such time investment. And few people have that tenacity and financial situation to do that.

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Merikkinon
Posts: 208

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Merikkinon » Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:33 pm

Lahire wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:36 am
Vaporizer7 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:58 am
I dream of tp Stone in vanilla. It would save us so much time ! You keep the rpg advenutre aspect since it required 3 persons and you avoid all this time lost waiting the 4th or 5th member who had a setback.
Save us time
At the cost of the integrity of the vanilla design.
I value far more the integrity of the design than some minutes saved.
The wait time is incidentally a good thing : it often gives you time to chat with your group, make friends, evaluate your partners (this one is the funny guy, this one is the shy guy, etc). Wait time is actually a social time. In a MMO, waiting is gameplay, because social is one of the three core pillars of vanilla design.
When you bastardize it, you obtain the degenerate "go-go-go" culture of retail wow (always running, not even "hi", speedrun and quit).

According to original designer, vanilla design has 3 pillars : world, social and character progression.
Easy TP sabotages 2 of the 3 pillars.

Just an awesome post, Lahire. The real gem of WoW was the social engagement. It fell off precipitously in favor of other 'rewards'.

Of course humans don't understand what they took for granted until it is gone!

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Sinrek
Posts: 788

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Sinrek » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:09 am

Merikkinon wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:31 pm
Sinrek wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:14 pm
Each extra teleportation makes WORLD even smaller even though it's already scaled down at least 3 times from what it is supposed to be lore-wise.

Personally, I'd like to see even Hearthstone removed and respawn of mobs in instances increased by 3 times. This way there would be much more sense for players to actually clear those entirely and run those multiple times increasing those rare drops chances.
OTOH, going super-restrictive or hardcore can make people say, "Nah". Because you *have* to put in a greater reward for such time investment. And few people have that tenacity and financial situation to do that.
17 minutes of simple running. Even less if you have FP.

Financial situation? Wat? wary_turtle
satisfied_turtle Slowly turtling my way up.

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Markuis
Posts: 22

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Markuis » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:46 am

Lahire wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:36 am
Vaporizer7 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:58 am
I dream of tp Stone in vanilla. It would save us so much time ! You keep the rpg advenutre aspect since it required 3 persons and you avoid all this time lost waiting the 4th or 5th member who had a setback.
Save us time
At the cost of the integrity of the vanilla design.
I value far more the integrity of the design than some minutes saved.
The wait time is incidentally a good thing : it often gives you time to chat with your group, make friends, evaluate your partners (this one is the funny guy, this one is the shy guy, etc). Wait time is actually a social time. In a MMO, waiting is gameplay, because social is one of the three core pillars of vanilla design.
When you bastardize it, you obtain the degenerate "go-go-go" culture of retail wow (always running, not even "hi", speedrun and quit).

According to original designer, vanilla design has 3 pillars : world, social and character progression.
Easy TP sabotages 2 of the 3 pillars.
Gameplay should attempt to be fun. Waiting is gameplay? I don't know, but it doesn't sound fun at all. I would combine the 4 people-stone with allowing it only if the 5th player that is summoned has been at that stone at least once, or something like that. Or, you know, add some lorefriendly gateways that makes it a bit easier.

Waiting may be gameplay, but doing so for 30 minutes is boring.

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Paw
Posts: 168

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Paw » Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:19 pm

Markuis wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:46 am
Lahire wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:36 am
Vaporizer7 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:58 am
I dream of tp Stone in vanilla. It would save us so much time ! You keep the rpg advenutre aspect since it required 3 persons and you avoid all this time lost waiting the 4th or 5th member who had a setback.
Save us time
At the cost of the integrity of the vanilla design.
I value far more the integrity of the design than some minutes saved.
The wait time is incidentally a good thing : it often gives you time to chat with your group, make friends, evaluate your partners (this one is the funny guy, this one is the shy guy, etc). Wait time is actually a social time. In a MMO, waiting is gameplay, because social is one of the three core pillars of vanilla design.
When you bastardize it, you obtain the degenerate "go-go-go" culture of retail wow (always running, not even "hi", speedrun and quit).

According to original designer, vanilla design has 3 pillars : world, social and character progression.
Easy TP sabotages 2 of the 3 pillars.
Gameplay should attempt to be fun. Waiting is gameplay? I don't know, but it doesn't sound fun at all. I would combine the 4 people-stone with allowing it only if the 5th player that is summoned has been at that stone at least once, or something like that. Or, you know, add some lorefriendly gateways that makes it a bit easier.

Waiting may be gameplay, but doing so for 30 minutes is boring.

This question is game philosophy. It's a toughie.

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Merikkinon
Posts: 208

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Merikkinon » Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:52 am

Sinrek wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:09 am
Merikkinon wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:31 pm
Sinrek wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:14 pm
Each extra teleportation makes WORLD even smaller even though it's already scaled down at least 3 times from what it is supposed to be lore-wise.

Personally, I'd like to see even Hearthstone removed and respawn of mobs in instances increased by 3 times. This way there would be much more sense for players to actually clear those entirely and run those multiple times increasing those rare drops chances.
OTOH, going super-restrictive or hardcore can make people say, "Nah". Because you *have* to put in a greater reward for such time investment. And few people have that tenacity and financial situation to do that.
17 minutes of simple running. Even less if you have FP.

Financial situation? Wat? wary_turtle


Got like 1-2 hrs max night to play. Relaxation. Instead I'm hearing:

Managing a 12-17min run so I don't go into a pack of damn lions that are several levels lower but that could kill me...

Is that relaxation? Fun? No, I'd say that just dulls me out even further. Some travel, sure. 1/4 to 1/3 hour to get to a dungeon?

So I would say yeah, there is a cap on that kinda stuff. I actually think the want for that much travel (running - give me a break - make it walking if travel is that sacrosanct) is a bit fringe. Suspect that is a super-minority that would want that.

MAKE TRAVEL GREAT AGAIN

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Sinrek
Posts: 788

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Sinrek » Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:03 am

Merikkinon wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:52 am
Sinrek wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:09 am
Merikkinon wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:31 pm


OTOH, going super-restrictive or hardcore can make people say, "Nah". Because you *have* to put in a greater reward for such time investment. And few people have that tenacity and financial situation to do that.
17 minutes of simple running. Even less if you have FP.

Financial situation? Wat? wary_turtle


Got like 1-2 hrs max night to play. Relaxation. Instead I'm hearing:

Managing a 12-17min run so I don't go into a pack of damn lions that are several levels lower but that could kill me...

Is that relaxation? Fun? No, I'd say that just dulls me out even further. Some travel, sure. 1/4 to 1/3 hour to get to a dungeon?

So I would say yeah, there is a cap on that kinda stuff. I actually think the want for that much travel (running - give me a break - make it walking if travel is that sacrosanct) is a bit fringe. Suspect that is a super-minority that would want that.

MAKE TRAVEL GREAT AGAIN
So you do not have time for playing the game and you ask for changes to suit you now?

Have you considered playing something less demanding instead? Like retail?
satisfied_turtle Slowly turtling my way up.

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Lahire
Posts: 78

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Lahire » Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:05 am

Merikkinon wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:52 am
Managing a 12-17min run so I don't go into a pack of damn lions that are several levels lower but that could kill me...
What you are describing is literally the intended experience as described by the original vanilla designer Kevin Jordan. It makes the world feel alive, dangerous, not a glorified menu but a real world. The lions should chase, attack and kill you on your travel if you aren't able to manage your way. That is the intended design and experience.

If you don't like it, you can go play the new "season of mastery" or whatever it's called : Blizzard bent to whiners who don't like core vanilla experience and want some kind of "retail minus".
Main: Whitemare

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Merikkinon
Posts: 208

Re: Dear Turtle, Porting Stones - A Time To Reconsider

Post by Merikkinon » Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:45 pm

What was my suggestion, Sinrek? Can you find one? Did I not say I was in general favor of the removal of some of the teleportation and understood that the wormhole going away (if that was the intended alteration) was understandable?

Rather, my comment was that removing everything that came in Vanilla to suit your stated 'personal view' was extreme.

And I don't get where on earth you're coming from, Lahire. I rather supported your view above, that extra portals and all that are a bane to the game. 12-17min of running is the type of running one does who does not have FPs. I get all the FPs (on Horde) well before lvl 8-10. That's a lot of running, I don't complain about it.

Read through comments in the thread and gain context before you start wailing with stupid comments about retail and Blizzard bending over to whims. Because that was just pathetic, on both your parts.

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