Hardcore characters effectively do not benefit from donation shop sales

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Nathraicheann
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Hardcore characters effectively do not benefit from donation shop sales

Post by Nathraicheann » Wed Jul 02, 2025 8:10 pm

Hello,

I would like to suggest implementing a more elegant solution about what happens with bought donation items on hardcore characters when they die.

As it stands right now :
- Softcore characters purchase items from the donation shop permanently.
- Hardcore characters "rent" items until they die.

A classic rent vs own conundrum that plagues today's world.

Why?
A player sees a sale -> decides to donate X money for Y item on HC -> Sale ends OR price of Y item is increased -> they die -> They can no longer afford Y item with X points, because the item now costs Z points -> They are forced to donate more.

HC characters are supposed to die. Many times.
Upon their death, they get refunded the donation points they've spent on the character.
If the player shopped during a sale or if the prices of the items they bought increased after their death - the player would no longer be able to afford the same items that they had.

My example : I bought a bag for 140 points on my HC character. I died multiple times during the sale and was able to afford it. If I die after the sale ends, I will no longer be able to afford the same bag on a new HC character.


Reasoning
The "hardcore" mechanic should be a gameplay-only decision. It should not affect my donation choices nor have an effect on my donation shop at all, the same way that choosing to play Tauren Druid does not affect my donation shop.

As it is, by choosing to play "Hardcore", I must accept this downside of the donation shop with my gameplay choice.


My suggestion
Have a new tab on the donation screen "Lost loot" where hardcore players are presented with a choice between two options :

A) Current behavior:
claim the originally paid donation points
-
OR
-
B) My suggestion :
If the logged in character is hardcore and level 1 at 0xp - to be able to simply claim the lost donation item(s) directly, instead of getting the donation points back. (emphasized because people seem to think my suggestion is to refund the regular price of an item as tokens)

Of course, move the lost loot to the top of the sidebar, add more information about what it is, make it be clear what it is and make it clear that items on hardcore death will go there and not be lost.


Please note that this suggestion is a "choose one" type of option and the "claim points" still refunds you the original price paid.
Image

Pros
  • Donators will own what they buy, regardless of when they bought it or if its price changed at any point for whatever reason
  • More choice to the end user - they get to choose what happens to their items
  • Hardcore players will be more confident in buying donation items leading to more donations
  • More convenience for the players - also leading to more donations
  • More faith in the Turtle WoW management through the support of non-predatory practices and pro-consumer improvements
  • Players will be more incentivized to buy during sales (more sales but less profit, also a con)
  • Players who have bought multiple items on a hardcore character can easily claim them from one screen, without having to individually search for them every time they die.

Cons
  • 2 afternoons of a developer's time and some design work.
  • Hardcore players that are "forced" to donate more in the specific cases will no longer need to donate more - loss of money
  • Players will be more incentivized to buy during sales (more sales but less profit, also a pro)
Last edited by Nathraicheann on Sat Jul 05, 2025 6:48 pm, edited 15 times in total.

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Re: Hardcore characters effectively do not benefit from donation shop sales

Post by Nathraicheann » Fri Jul 04, 2025 10:12 pm

Daily bump. Looking to get a TWoW member's view on this if it is sane or not. All it is is adding to the way it currently is in a very fair way. It only adds to the current solution but is hugely beneficial to players.

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Gladeshadow
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Re: Hardcore characters effectively do not benefit from donation shop sales

Post by Gladeshadow » Fri Jul 04, 2025 10:17 pm

The title is a bit misleading and should probably say *may* not benefit rather than *do* not benefit, but I get the general sentiment.
It's not only a frustrating thing when you die after buying from the shop after a sale or when prices change, but it's prevented some of my characters from having rewards for some of the anniversary events since they die after. Even contacted a GM about that one, and they were no help.
Yes, this would be a good thing to visit, given that hardcore is a big draw of the game and makes up a fair number of the players. Certainly some of most devoted players.

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Aralise
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Re: Hardcore characters effectively do not benefit from donation shop sales

Post by Aralise » Sat Jul 05, 2025 5:14 am

I dont play hardcore, and dont agree the characters dont benefit.
But the suggestion is great, makes no sense that hardcore characters cant benefit from store sales post death.

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Cosmico
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Re: Hardcore characters effectively do not benefit from donation shop sales

Post by Cosmico » Sat Jul 05, 2025 9:33 am

Nathraicheann wrote: Wed Jul 02, 2025 8:10 pm Hello,

I would like to suggest implementing a more elegant solution to the retrieval of donation items bought on hardcore characters.

Why?
Hardcore characters have a HUGE downside regarding the donation shop - If they bought something on a sale and later die - they cannot re-buy it on a new hardcore character if the sale has ended or if the server management decides to raise the price of an item. If I buy an item for a hardcore character, I will definitely want to be able to use it on future hardcore characters as well (if/when my character dies).

Imagine my scenario
I like the server, I decided to both donate to support the server and get some convenience for my hardcore character since dying multiple times already frustrated me enough. I took advantage of the current sale and bought a bag for 140 points. Then I thought to myself : what if I die 2 weeks from now? The sale will be over, the bag will cost 200 and I will get refunded 140 - the price I paid. At that point, as a donator, I will not only be inconvenienced by not being able to access the item(s) I donated for, but I will be further inconvenienced by being forced to donate more to buy the same item.

Reasoning
The "hardcore" mechanic should be a gameplay-only decision. It should not affect my donation choices nor have an effect on my donation shop at all. As it is, by choosing to play "Hardcore", I must accept this downside of the donation shop with my gameplay choice.

My proposal
Have a new tab on the donation screen "Lost loot" where hardcore players are presented with a choice between two options :
a) claim the originally paid donation points like it works right now
OR
b) if the logged in character is hardcore and level 1 at 0xp - to be able to claim the lost item(s) directly.

Of course, move the lost loot to the top of the sidebar, add more information about what it is, make it be clear what it is and make it clear that items on hardcore death will go there and not be lost.

Image

Pros
  • Donators will own what they buy, regardless of when they bought it or if its price changed at any point for whatever reason
  • More choice to the end user - they get to choose what happens to their items
  • Hardcore players will be more confident in buying donation items leading to more donations
  • More convenience for the players - also leading to more donations
  • More faith in the Turtle WoW management through the support of non-predatory practices and pro-consumer improvements
  • Players will be more incentivized to buy during sales (more sales but less profit, also a con)
  • Players who have bought multiple items on a hardcore character can easily claim them from one screen, without having to individually search for them every time they die.

Cons
  • 2 afternoons of a developer's time and some design work.
  • Hardcore players that are "forced" to donate more in the specific cases will no longer need to donate more - loss of money
  • Players will be more incentivized to buy during sales (more sales but less profit, also a pro)
Let me help you a bit in this. IF you have already acquired several times the same object (let's say a repair bot) for other passed hc characters, you get the points refund however, if you spend those points in character customization like race changes, or skin addons, mounts and pets they will be lost if your character dies. But if you buy utility objects (like mentioned), and bags and stuff like that you can retrieve them. In this way the only things you may keep are the stuff related to inventory and character enhancement for the price of losing all character personalization. Seems a fair deal what you prefer fashion or functionality? It won't be easy to convince the turtles of this. Be smart.

You know this is a game. At least they don't have any microtransactions related to gold and equipment set pieces.
"Beyond the dark portal broke the story and isn't canon." -ME
"Imagine how disappointing it was to discover that having magic is just money".

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Re: Hardcore characters effectively do not benefit from donation shop sales

Post by Nathraicheann » Sat Jul 05, 2025 11:45 am

Cosmico wrote: Sat Jul 05, 2025 9:33 am In this way the only things you may keep are the stuff related to inventory and character enhancement for the price of losing all character personalization. Seems a fair deal what you prefer fashion or functionality?
I don't agree. The goal of a donation shop is not to inconvenience the player. Players *literally* donate to receive convenience. There shouldn't be a downside to specific types of characters. I will quote myself again - My gameplay choice should not determine how much I benefit from the donation shop. This is like "If you play Night Elf, your donation store gets a 10% discount, if you play Orc, your store gets a 10% price increase". Both are gameplay decisions and you can see how what I just wrote is absurd. Same goes for my gameplay decision of "hardcore". Players should NOT receive inconvenience when they pay specifically for convenience.

Character customization can simply be "grayed out", just like it is right now in the shop - if your character does not meet the race criteria - you can't buy the customization. It can be made unavailable in the same manner.
Cosmico wrote: Sat Jul 05, 2025 9:33 am You know this is a game right?
Yes, and the 20 euro I donated are most definitely not a game currency. I don't want a refund, I donated to support the server. For the 20 euro I donated, i get only 1 bag, so clearly am not getting "a deal" and the money I spent is mostly a donation. But the one item I get, i want to keep having access to it, rather than having to donate even more if I die.

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Re: Hardcore characters effectively do not benefit from donation shop sales

Post by Pulptenks69 » Sat Jul 05, 2025 1:58 pm

I just don't understand why people who are adamant at playing hardcore want to do with a 36 slot bag constantly. It's supposed to be a challenge, and ya'll trying to cheese it. You donated to a character that can die to about anything in a video game that designed to be dangerous. It's pretty logical it's a dumb investment.

But hey "aw shiet I died dam let me cry to try get a refund or endlessly re-using my advantageous item!" makes no sense to me. Stop being a pain to the server staff, I can't imagine all the trouble they have to go through with such mindset in this community.

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Re: Hardcore characters effectively do not benefit from donation shop sales

Post by Swizz » Sat Jul 05, 2025 3:12 pm

This sounds like a great topic for the Discord #general channel.

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Re: Hardcore characters effectively do not benefit from donation shop sales

Post by Chewbo » Sat Jul 05, 2025 3:24 pm

As a avid hc enjoyer, I agree that you should be able to "restore loot".....

Bumping for relevance!

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Re: Hardcore characters effectively do not benefit from donation shop sales

Post by Xerilin » Sat Jul 05, 2025 3:53 pm

I am not completely against this suggestion, but I don't think it should have any kind of high priority either.
  • You deem it unfair that hc characters "don't benefit from sales". But they do. They get to use the item you bought and you even get your tokens refunded after. All shop items are character bound and this character benefits.
  • In my view, HC characters already benefit more than other characters from donation items. On a normal character, you always think twice about what to get, especially if you play a lot of alts. If you are sure you are going to die anyway, like you seem to be, you can just get whatever you want and when you do die, you just get to spend the points again. And if you spend them on another hc character, you even get to spend them yet again. In this way, hc characters profit a lot from donation rewards already.
  • If I decide to just not play a normal character anymore, my points are basically lost. If Iget tired of your hc character, I could always just kill it.

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Re: Hardcore characters effectively do not benefit from donation shop sales

Post by Cosmico » Sat Jul 05, 2025 3:54 pm

Nathraicheann wrote: Sat Jul 05, 2025 11:45 am
Cosmico wrote: Sat Jul 05, 2025 9:33 am In this way the only things you may keep are the stuff related to inventory and character enhancement for the price of losing all character personalization. Seems a fair deal what you prefer fashion or functionality?
I don't agree. The goal of a donation shop is not to inconvenience the player. Players *literally* donate to receive convenience. There shouldn't be a downside to specific types of characters. I will quote myself again - My gameplay choice should not determine how much I benefit from the donation shop. This is like "If you play Night Elf, your donation store gets a 10% discount, if you play Orc, your store gets a 10% price increase". Both are gameplay decisions and you can see how what I just wrote is absurd. Same goes for my gameplay decision of "hardcore". Players should NOT receive inconvenience when they pay specifically for convenience.

Character customization can simply be "grayed out", just like it is right now in the shop - if your character does not meet the race criteria - you can't buy the customization. It can be made unavailable in the same manner.
Cosmico wrote: Sat Jul 05, 2025 9:33 am You know this is a game right?
Yes, and the 20 euro I donated are most definitely not a game currency. I don't want a refund, I donated to support the server. For the 20 euro I donated, i get only 1 bag, so clearly am not getting "a deal" and the money I spent is mostly a donation. But the one item I get, i want to keep having access to it, rather than having to donate even more if I die.
Men, be rational. You're spending money in a character that in order to keep it you must take it to the max lvl first. Why don't you wait until you reach that lvl before making donations? You know it's possible that you lose it for many reasons. I can't help you in this, because hard core is gameplay.
"Beyond the dark portal broke the story and isn't canon." -ME
"Imagine how disappointing it was to discover that having magic is just money".

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Re: Hardcore characters effectively do not benefit from donation shop sales

Post by Nathraicheann » Sat Jul 05, 2025 6:27 pm

Xerilin wrote: Sat Jul 05, 2025 3:53 pm
  • You deem it unfair that hc characters "don't benefit from sales". But they do. [...] All shop items are character bound and this character benefits.
  • [...]In this way, hc characters profit a lot from donation rewards already.
  • If I decide to just not play a normal character anymore, my points are basically lost. If I get tired of your hc character, I could always just kill it.
Thanks for the response!
Here are my views on this take :

First point - "HC Characters do benefit from sales" - until they die. Hardcore is a mechanic that has you starting over and over. WoW is a game designed with "death" in mind. So much so, that multiple classes have "Resurrect" as an ability. I don't plan to die, but it inevitably happens. Even to the most dedicated veteran players. The game is just not meant to be played this way, but it is an interesting challenge nonetheless.

Second point - HC characters do not "profit" from the current solution. Sure - you get something that softcore characters do not traditionally get, but otherwise the items would be inaccessible, thus the current solution is more of a requirement and a necessity, rather than a benefit.

Through my suggestion, they can even make it so that you can't claim your points anymore - this would align it with how it is for softcore. They can make it so that when your HC character dies, the only way to re-obtain the bought items would be to "claim" them directly on a fresh new HC character. If they decide to go that route, it would be actually more restricted than it is currently and closer to the softcore behavior. They can even lock it to the same character name, but they would need to reserve the names of your HC characters, to ensure that you would be able to re-create a character with the same name.

Third point - Your points are not lost - you can delete the character and the points will be returned. Also, yes, you could kill your HC character, but if you've invested hundreds of hours in it, you would be giving up everything you've played for, so whilst your point in theory is somewhat correct, in practice it is not realistic.

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Re: Hardcore characters effectively do not benefit from donation shop sales

Post by Nathraicheann » Sat Jul 05, 2025 6:33 pm

Cosmico wrote: Sat Jul 05, 2025 3:54 pm Men, be rational. You're spending money in a character that in order to keep it you must take it to the max lvl first. Why don't you wait until you reach that lvl before making donations? You know it's possible that you lose it for many reasons. I can't help you in this, because hard core is gameplay.
This is the "suggestions" forum. I have made a suggestion to improve the current implementation. As you said, this is a game - it can be modified (more than it is now) to make systems better.

Half of the donation shop's purpose is convenience throughout leveling. If I wait until 60, I wouldn't get much convenience out of the convenience items.

Your logic is to accept reality as it is and refuse to make improvements and I am sorry to say it but if everyone thought the way you do, we would never have progressed further than the stone age as humans.

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Re: Hardcore characters effectively do not benefit from donation shop sales

Post by Cosmico » Sat Jul 05, 2025 9:27 pm

Nathraicheann wrote: Sat Jul 05, 2025 6:33 pm
Cosmico wrote: Sat Jul 05, 2025 3:54 pm Men, be rational. You're spending money in a character that in order to keep it you must take it to the max lvl first. Why don't you wait until you reach that lvl before making donations? You know it's possible that you lose it for many reasons. I can't help you in this, because hard core is gameplay.
This is the "suggestions" forum. I have made a suggestion to improve the current implementation. As you said, this is a game - it can be modified (more than it is now) to make systems better.

Half of the donation shop's purpose is convenience throughout leveling. If I wait until 60, I wouldn't get much convenience out of the convenience items.

Your logic is to accept reality as it is and refuse to make improvements and I am sorry to say it but if everyone thought the way you do, we would never have progressed further than the stone age as humans.
It sucks to says things this literal but don't waste your money in a character you will surely or most probably lose! Secure your lvl 60, or enjoy the time playing. I try to help as most as it's on me to do so, but you guys don't get what the hc is about. HC is not for enjoying the challenge. Having hunters and rogues almost waiting you get out from the city is exactly what HC was done for.
"Beyond the dark portal broke the story and isn't canon." -ME
"Imagine how disappointing it was to discover that having magic is just money".

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