New race: Ogres

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Jombo
Posts: 44

New race: Ogres

Post by Jombo » Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:20 am

Hello everyone

I've been thinking about how Turtle Wow has been and is connected to the old Warcraft lore and universe with the more comtemporary timeline. One thing struck me: The only race that was in WC2 which is not playable in Turtle Wow is the ogres. Please note that I added many (also some behind the scenes/technical) details to exactly how it could be pulled off in my opinion. So please bear with my long, descriptive suggestion.
Now, you might say that ogres are stupid and shouldn't be a playable race for that reason, or that they have no reason to ally with either the Horde or the Alliance.
Reading about ogres on Wowpedia (https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ogre) and remembering the high elven runestone and subsequent boost to their intelligence through Guldan's Altar of Storms, I think it actually makes sense to make them a playable race.


Bloodthirsty beginnings during The Second War:
- The starting zone would have some similarities to the backstory of the goblins' escape from their former masters. The premise for the ogres would be a starting point at The Second War timeline near the end of the war, the players being some of the last ogres to be converted into intelligent ogres before the betrayal of Gul'dan. Players start at lvl 7 (after all, ogres are not complete weaklings even when they are very young) and level to 10 in the starting area.


Locations:
- From start (lvl 7) to lvl 10 the area is a big ogre mound with space for quest NPCs and mobs. Your immediate ranking leader, an Ogre warlord, is the main quest NPC here. The ogre mound would be completely cut off, with no entrance. Therefore the early timeline will be preserved and no other races can enter this starting zone.
- The quests should be the usual level 7-10 kill and fetch quests, killing some half-escaped Alliance prisoners (similar to the philosophy behind the Stockades), weak and lazy ogres who must be taught a permanent lesson (this is the old, bloodthirsty Horde after all), spiders and finally rebellious ogres and their boss (at lvl 10) who must, of course be put into an early grave.


The end of the starting area:
- At lvl 10 the player, after having killed the rebel ogre leader, the player gets a new quest from the ogre warlord and gains access to a copy and instanced version of the Altar of Storms area at the Burning Steppes visually leading "out" of the mound (but only visually, not technically of course). The point of being a copy and perhaps for the altar itself being instanced, is that the starting area is in a different timeline, hence it would break the lore allowing other players to enter the zone similar to the ogre mound itself, but being out in the open and quite large, the altar of storms zone is better off being put into an instanced area. Of course a tall palisade would be added with a closed gate instead of simple making a clunky invisible wall. There could, without breaking any lore, have been a protective palisades at the altar in the Second War after all.

-The quest itself starts at your superior orc warlord ("You have proven yourself strong and brutal enough to be worthy of Gul'dans magical transformation. Go now, and only return when the ritual is finished"), and from there leading into the instance.

- The player is asked by an ogre mage NPC (a given quest) to move towards the altar where an orc warlock NPC will have a dialogue option that stuns the player while orc warlocks and ogre mages perform the ritual on you (animation is a dummy drain mana or similar targeted at the player, actually doing nothing but looking nice - lasts 8 seconds) after which the player now has the powers from the Altar. Now you, the player has become a thinking ogre! After this, the next stage of the quest leads you back out of the instance and back to the starting NPCs, your superior the ogre warlord. The quest stage is completed upon talking to the warlord.

-A nearby table has two objects lying on top of it. These are Scroll/map objects (visuals). The first one is called "War Preparations (Alliance)", the second "War Preparations (Horde)". Interacting with either will OOC through NPC dialogue inform the player that going on with this dialogue will make the player join the Horde/Alliance depending on the object. Once decided, the player can read on about what passed in the meantime from that old timeline to the current Wow one where the player is going to be teleport

The story from the scrolls would basically be:
"After the Second war had raged on for quite some time, The Old Horde was finally defeated. The mighty ogres dispersed in all directions to save their lives and make new opportunities for themselves either in the Eastern Kingdoms or across the Great Sea in Kalimdor.

"You decided to work as a mercenary...

(Here it becomes specific for Alliance or Horde)

(Horde): ..in The Crossroads as a bouncer, but after a while you've started thinking that you are destined for more than this tedious life. Driven by ambition and a lust for power, you reached out to The New Horde of Thrall which lukewarmly and pragmatically allowed you to work with them - at least for now."

(Alliance): ...in Westfall hunting down bandits and others unlucky enough to have a price on their head. At some point you decided that you were destined for more than this. You went to the Alliance who, because of the difficult times, were willing to accept a new, although brutish, mercenary of the Alliance into their ranks - for the time being."



Final notes
- Regarding the starting area. Being an enclosed ogre mound (probably below some of Wow's generic mountain areas with no content and out of sight) makes for a very different starting area from all the other ones. With the closed off ogre mound and copy of the Altar of Storms, the starting zone shouldn't be too difficult to create landscape-wise.

- Ogres have the unique reputation system which enables them to switch sides from Alliance to Horde and vice-versa. The starting reputation is 'Neutral' for all of the chosen faction's cities and 'Hostile' for the opposing faction at the end of the starting area. (A further idea here is to cap main faction rep for ogres to neutral)

- Two tiny ogre mercenary camps (Neutral and not being able to speak with except a dismissive message to everyone except ogres players who are friendly) with a few guards, an ogre "mount" trainer, and a reputation NPC will be placed near the border between Elwynn and Westfall and near The Crossroads in the Barrens.

-The reputation NPC: Here you can hand in materials for rep with a given faction giving negative reputation with the opposing faction (I guess cloth is fine as one way, another could be repeatable quests perhaps - similar to Silvermoon and forest trolls except that the reputation goes to the Alliance or the Horde and decreases rep with the opposite faction).

- The ogre "mount" is like plainsrunning but with a different name "Ogre Rush". The quest should be similar to the plainsrunning quest.

- Ogres only get a heartstone after leaving the starting zone set to Crossroads or Sentinel Hill depending on faction chosen. Otherwise it will lead to timeline breaking abuse being a possibility.

- if possible, perhaps ogres should be restricted to players who already have a lvl 50 (or 60 is perhaps better?) character. I think that would be a good idea so we don't get ogre spam too much.

- Regarding the often used argument that "ogres are too large", some, indeed many, ogres are the size of tauren (https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t ... ace/341249).

- Classes: Warrior, Mage, Priest, Shaman, Warlock

- When you create an ogre character, it is of course on the Horde side in the interface - that is where you start after all, regardless of the faction you choose at the end of the starting zone.

- Racial abilities: Probably something with constitution and strength for the passives. For the actives I'm sure someone has better ideas than I do.

- The starting area quests would give a ton of xp so as to not force the player to grind mobs for too long to get to lvl 10.

That's all from me now.
Last edited by Jombo on Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:47 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Cervantes
Posts: 100

Re: New race: Ogres

Post by Cervantes » Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:59 am

Nice idea, I really like it :)
It would be cool to see some Ogre's running around.
I used to play WC3 a lot and always hired Ogre's from the mercenaries building, good solid units.

1+ here, I know its a lot of work to add an race to the server but it's a another unique idea for a great server, i would play a Ogre over a Panda any day.
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Mrkrissatan
Posts: 181

Re: New race: Ogres

Post by Mrkrissatan » Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:20 am

+1

Racials should be

Arcane resistance
Physical damage reduction
Blacksmithing skill increase

And the active racial should be an air fear because they're giant monstrous creatures (was originally thinking stun but Taureans have that covered)

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Cervantes
Posts: 100

Re: New race: Ogres

Post by Cervantes » Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:14 am

Some very interesting videos about the lore of Ogre's:

1. World of Warcraft lore lesson 86: Ogres


2. Ogre Allied Race - 6 Awesome Reasons Why | WoW BfA


3. How Did Ogres Get To Kalimdor? - WoW Lore
Seymour Siegfried Jones
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Gheor
Posts: 211

Re: New race: Ogres

Post by Gheor » Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:45 am

Your efforts are appreciated, it's a good idea.
We've already discussed the possibility of adding new races but it all comes down to lore and the ways of making it real.

It takes a huge amount of effort to make that possible, firstly all armor must fit the new race, which is done by hand as it was done for Goblins.

Creating a new start zone wouldn't be that huge a deal, making them fit in a faction would, yes, Horde already has Ogres, you can argue that if you want to.

No female Ogres, you can claim it's not a big deal but it is.

Animations, voice lines and lots of other stuff I am not willing to go on and repeat.

The team discussed potential new races for the future, we reached the conclusion that if we ever do it, it will be far in the future since it's very time consuming.

Once again, thank you for the effort, if we ever wish to add Ogres we will take inspiration from your post.
A sheet of paper and a pen can give birth to many things.

Gheor

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Jombo
Posts: 44

Re: New race: Ogres

Post by Jombo » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:25 pm

Thank you for the consideration, Gheor - much appreciated!
And I totally understand.

- Female ogres are canon in Wow lore, so yes, the major obstacle would of course be to make a model for it and they should obviously be added to make it work at all.

- I understand if ogres were only given to the Horde, but I'm kinda keen on the mercenary idea since many ogres are directly hostile to both main factions and being without any kind of home, the player ogres may as well go to the one or the other side for business and more.

- furthermore, I am fairly confident that too many people would start spamming ogre chars if there isn't some kind of requirement to create one in the first place (namely having another high lvl char to unlock ogres). Everyone wants to try the big, bad looking guy - I think - unlike HE and goblin which appeal more to some audiences than others.

All of this is a large amount of work and there are more important things to be done for the foreseeable future

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Lahire
Posts: 139

Re: New race: Ogres

Post by Lahire » Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:09 pm

I would actually prefer to see the 2 new races fully finished before another third is worked on.
Goblins are really neat but they are incomplete (no cloak, some animations are missing, only 1 female hair, etc). It would certainly be a lot of tidious work on assets to finish goblins.
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Exizefra
Posts: 6

Re: New race: Ogres

Post by Exizefra » Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:09 pm

I have a thought: instead a male and female ogres it can be a one-headed and two-headed ogre. And make a "gender restriction": one-headed can be a warriors and a...hunters, for example (i can't imagine how ogres can be connected with the Light at all, so idk about priest class), two-headed - mages, warlocks and shamans (for being a more lore-accurate...as it should be with the Night Elves, but this is an old question). And of course that should be an extra race for the Alliance too - but i don't have an ideas for that. Worgens? Furbolgs? Broken draeneis? Who knows.

Alexanderulz
Posts: 4

Re: New race: Ogres

Post by Alexanderulz » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:49 am

Maybe it is mentioned in the lore videos posted above, haven't had the time to watch them. But lore wise, there is a very good reason for ogres to be a part of the Horde. Especially if we are talking about the Stonemaul Ogre Clan, currently located in Dustwallow Marsh and formerly led by the Champion of the Horde, Rexxar (He becomes their leader during the WC III Bonus campaign). Rexxar did leave them and put another Warlord in charge, but as far as the Wiki states, there has been no sign of Horde defection from the Dustwallow Marsh side of the Clan.

You could have a little starting zone for the ogres there, perhaps fighting off Murlocs near the coast, and the hostile wildlife. Here they would be recovering after having their main base being attacked by Onyxias Black Dragon Brood (the ruins near Onyxias Lair). Being this vulnerable, perhaps they would seek security and support from the horde by joining them more permanently?

Maybe one could even later on have quests that involve trying to persuade the defected Eastern Kingdoms part of the Stonemaul Clan who went to the Alterac Mountains, now called the Crushridge Clan to rejoin their fellow clan members in the horde. Instead of just killing Mug'Thol for resisting the possession placed upon him by Sylvanas during the WC III campaign.

Just some food for thought :)

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Raukodor
Posts: 109

Re: New race: Ogres

Post by Raukodor » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:50 am

Ogres would fit in horde. They were part of the horde (and now too with stonemaul leaded by rexxar)

But for aliance....this is not warhammer where ogres are mercenaries and work even with the empire (for food and gold). I doubt any elf dwarf or human let a ogre walk in his city... Is my point.

I see for example furlbogs more aliance friendly ( Nelfs)
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Markuis
Posts: 22

Re: New race: Ogres

Post by Markuis » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:18 am

Raukodor wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:50 am
I see for example furlbogs more aliance friendly ( Nelfs)
I really like adding new races, but Furbolgs can't really be customized as much as we would like. I'd rather have The Broken as a playable race for the Alliance.

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Augustfenix85
Posts: 28

Re: New race: Ogres

Post by Augustfenix85 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:17 pm

What about doing some slight reskining of Draenai models and a maybe some sizing and make them Half Orge?
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Hardwelsam
Posts: 86
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Re: New race: Ogres

Post by Hardwelsam » Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:44 pm

Augustfenix85 wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:17 pm
What about doing some slight reskining of Draenai models and a maybe some sizing and make them Half Orge?


Sounds dumb.
Even if u just amaze how to do it.
No..
That wouldnt happen.

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Hardwelsam
Posts: 86
Location: Hungary, Szeged

Re: New race: Ogres

Post by Hardwelsam » Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:54 pm

What Gheor try point,the main problem ,making voice for the New race.
The problem actually not about the Custom race,if thats fit in the Classic lore,it would acepted,but the problem still the animations,voice acting,spells/abilities for them.

I Think i Will can help with the spell animations,but there the problem is,what class would be the ogre? Melee,then warrior?
Meh,big blue joe running dungeons wielding a big smasher to get xp run.
Bit weird,believe me

Animations can be maked but take time if devs totally acept it,but everyone need to think about ogres what class would be and even they racial what would be

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Rafale
Posts: 22

Re: New race: Ogres

Post by Rafale » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:56 am

Ofc, I agree with those saying we need to resolve bugs before implementing new content.

Btw I would have prefered Ogre race instead of goblins. Ogres are really something TurtleWow could have bring as New.

Starting area could be a zone north of DM, just West of Tauren starting zone.

Image showing starting area, and the cave to join the Tauren 5+ zone : https://www.hebergeur-image.com/upload/ ... d27981.png

Why ? Because there is lot of Ogres in DM zone, and DMN is the ogre dungeon. New ogres could be slaves or gladiators escaping from King Gordok, to the cave going into Mulgore

Ogre Classes : Warrior - Hunter - Shaman - Lock - Mage

For the racial, I was think about :
Stonemaul Strength : After not moving during 5 seconds, you gain a buff which increases your damage by 1%. Stacks up to 3 times. Effect is lost if you move.
Forges of draenor : +10 BS skill
Solid guts : +10% on food buffs
Fire resistance : +10 Fire resistance

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