Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

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Paw
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Paw » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:06 pm

I like that wand idea.

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Ravielsk
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Ravielsk » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:26 pm

Lahire wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:11 pm
Why was it removed during beta? There must have been a good reason for the designers to make this decision.
No, there really wasn't. A lot of design decisions in vanilla were mostly "spur-of-the-moment" experiments that never went anywhere. Maybe there was a plan to include more staves for druids so using spears was seen as redundant but then said staves were not added until TBC.
Something similar occurred with Paladins where in the beta/alpha they were technically the first class to be worked on but then at the last minute they were entirely overhauled into what we have now in the game. Problem was that the changes was so last minute that they literary had no gear until several patches in and a good chunk of their baseline abilities(consecration, righteous fury, blessing of kings) were locked away in their talent trees. Leaving the class semi-broken and highly dependent on consumables and engineering.

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Lahire
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Lahire » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:02 am

I guess it was removed because it doesn't really fit with the fantasy of being a druid. We've never seen a druid with a lance or a trident. Druids have sticks, like old mages.
Intern feedback must have been like "No druid in WC3 or D&D or any other fantasy universe ever had a lance so why do I have one?"

As fantasy fulfillment was the main objective of Vanilla class design, this argument must have had some weight.
Ravielsk wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:26 pm
Something similar occurred with Paladins where in the beta/alpha they were technically the first class to be worked on but then at the last minute they were entirely overhauled into what we have now in the game.
Kevin Jordan said he was running out of time and Paladin's mechanic was the last thing he managed to do just before the release. The seal/judgement mechanic was thrown together in a few days. He planned something bigger but Paladin was the last class without a specific mechanic, so he did one quickly. That's not a "overhaul last minute change", that's a "oh shit I have no time to finish the game let's put up with something".

He didn't have time to finish Hunter's ressource system, so they obtained a mana bar, and he didn't have time for another big planned class project, I don't remember which.
Last edited by Lahire on Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Karmax
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Karmax » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:51 am

I'm kinda torn about this suggestion.

Sure, being able to use weapons like Ice Barbed Spear as a druid would be nice, but it wouldn't really fit in with the class fantasy - and I'm a big fan of RP and class fantasy (like druids not being able to talk to NPCs in forms which was unfortunately removed in later expansions).

I'm sure this is the reason why druids can't wield polearms in the first place (as Lahire already pointed out).

Instead, I'd favor a system where druids gain - just as an example - a weapon's dps as strength.
And to avoid balance and resto druids becoming too strong, this ability could be tied to the infamously lackluster Predatory Strikes talent in the feral tree.

Just an idea (not gonna happen, but one can dream).
I have no mount and I must scream.

Reploidrocsa
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Reploidrocsa » Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:27 pm

Agree 100%

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Vaporizer7
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Vaporizer7 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:52 am

+1

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Yutilk
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Yutilk » Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:49 am

Count me in, especially since it was mentioned in the manual.

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Sinrek
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Sinrek » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:11 am

Should be trainable. I agree.
satisfied_turtle Slowly turtling my way up.

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Tytarjunior
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Tytarjunior » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:17 am

+1

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Unangwata
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Unangwata » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:11 pm

Wrong. Druids are non-violent and don't use sharp weapons. Only blunt. Can't imagine druid with a spear... wtf
They care for every natural being.. which is all.

Fizzeek
Posts: 54

Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Fizzeek » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:19 pm

Druids can already use daggers, so pointy stuff is already in-game for them. Plus I'd call most of what druids do here pretty violent :P

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Lahire
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Lahire » Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:23 pm

Let's remove dagger proficiency then. satisfied_turtle_head

On a more serious note : I thought about polearm for druid and stumbled on the conclusion that I have no real opinion about it. I guess it would be ok and would not change any dynamic of the game. Cats and bears would be a bit happier, that's about it. Polearms are rare and mid-tier items anyway.
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Rakura
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Rakura » Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:12 pm

Unangwata wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:11 pm
Wrong. Druids are non-violent and don't use sharp weapons. Only blunt. Can't imagine druid with a spear... wtf
They care for every natural being.. which is all.
Yep you're right no sharp weapons here:
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Moonglaive

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Velite
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Velite » Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:53 pm

Unangwata wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:11 pm
Wrong. Druids are non-violent and don't use sharp weapons. Only blunt. Can't imagine druid with a spear... wtf
They care for every natural being.. which is all.
Except druids use daggers...

Tortuga
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Tortuga » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:39 am

It's a big enigma why in most RPGs blunt weapons are considered "non-bloodshed" or even "non-violent", and why RPG-druids are usually bound to use non-sharp weapons (except daggers, and scimitars, and... uh... claws & fangs). Both statements are false in real life: a hit with a simple wooden club will provoke internal bleeding and death (causing death is a main purpose of any weapon, after all), and there is no historical evidence of RL druids restraining from any kind of weapon (seems they used whatever was at hand), but still RPG-druids are hugging trees and pooping rainbows

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Mythox
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Mythox » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:41 am

+1
Ish-ne-alo por-ah!

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Lahire
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Lahire » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:59 am

Tortuga wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:39 am
It's a big enigma why in most RPGs blunt weapons are considered "non-bloodshed" or even "non-violent", and why RPG-druids are usually bound to use non-sharp weapons (except daggers, and scimitars, and... uh... claws & fangs). Both statements are false in real life: a hit with a simple wooden club will provoke internal bleeding and death (causing death is a main purpose of any weapon, after all), and there is no historical evidence of RL druids restraining from any kind of weapon (seems they used whatever was at hand), but still RPG-druids are hugging trees and pooping rainbows
It doesn't come from the idea that staffs were "non-violent", it's a relic of the habit of giving a walking staff to old magician characters. The walking staff trope comes from medieval novels: the old christian pilgrim, or old monk, were already tropes in medieval litterature and they walked with a stick or staff.

Then it passed to Gandalf ("the grey pilgrim" : it is probable the magician staff in lotr is inspired by the pilgrim staff of old novels). Then to all magicians, as Tolkien is one of the major inspirations of all fantasy world created recently. Then to all magician-like characters (including druids).

It's just an ageless litterature characterization tool copied and copied in all materials. The staff is a shorthand to express the characterization: "I am a sage and wanderer like the pilgrim of old".
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Tortuga
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Tortuga » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:34 pm

Not necessary to be old to have a staff. Looks like all "civil" travelers used it, if they could not hire a mercenary for protection. That's the one reason

The other could be the alleged druidic rejection to wear metal, coined in early D&D I think. Druids were amended clerics, the healers-in-plate. Gygax &team wanted a "cleric of Nature", so the druids had to wear leather and hides (what's the best way to demonstrate how they love nature? skin the beasts!), and reject axes and swords, so the staves and clubs were all what was left... also (stone?) daggers and then somehow scimitars sneaking-in o_O

Just an old illogical and inconsistent view of imaginary "druids", better be called Wiccans or what

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Nerasw
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Re: Allow Druids to Carry Polearms/Spears

Post by Nerasw » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:03 am

Tortuga wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:34 pm
Not necessary to be old to have a staff. Looks like all "civil" travelers used it, if they could not hire a mercenary for protection. That's the one reason

The other could be the alleged druidic rejection to wear metal, coined in early D&D I think. Druids were amended clerics, the healers-in-plate. Gygax &team wanted a "cleric of Nature", so the druids had to wear leather and hides (what's the best way to demonstrate how they love nature? skin the beasts!), and reject axes and swords, so the staves and clubs were all what was left... also (stone?) daggers and then somehow scimitars sneaking-in o_O

Just an old illogical and inconsistent view of imaginary "druids", better be called Wiccans or what
Round. insidious_turtle

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