Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Hyrag
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Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Post by Hyrag » Wed May 05, 2021 5:05 am

just a new spell to firelocks become viable satisfied_turtle
and
why can't the high elves be warlocks?

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Starkobjekt
Posts: 57

Re: Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Post by Starkobjekt » Wed May 05, 2021 8:48 am

Sorry but I think that would just be waste of a spell, modifications to searing pain and fire lock could become something

High elves already have 6/6 class slots and the current classes makes more sense in a lore perspective I think

Balake
Posts: 220

Re: Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Post by Balake » Wed May 05, 2021 1:04 pm

Searing Pain can't work in PvE because of the extra threat. Warlocks had a fire damage spell in the form of Blood Boil, but it was cut before the game's release.
https://classic.wowhead.com/search?q=boil+blood#items for the grimoires
https://classicdb.ch/?spell=6207 for the ability. It's a fire school spell with a 3 second cast time filling a different niche than Searing Pain.

About high elves, because high elf warlocks can't exist. If a high elf tries to be a warlock then they stop being a high elf and turn into a blood elf.

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Kazgrim
Posts: 324

Re: Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Post by Kazgrim » Wed May 05, 2021 3:55 pm

Balake wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:04 pm
About high elves, because high elf warlocks can't exist. If a high elf tries to be a warlock then they stop being a high elf and turn into a blood elf.
The term blood elf is a political identity, not a term used to describe someone physiologically like Lost One draenei or corrupted orcs. Kael'thas and the high elves renamed themselves after the fall of Quel'thalas and prior to joining Illidan, and before any demon funny business.

A high elf pursuing fel magic does not make them anything other than a high elf using fel magic. What changes that has on the body may be similar to the changes blood elves experience, but those changes are not exclusive to a faction of high elves who call themselves blood elves (They merely coincide).

The main difference between a blood elf and a high elf is which side of the faction conflict they fall under.
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Balake
Posts: 220

Re: Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Post by Balake » Wed May 05, 2021 4:33 pm

While it's true that it won't make them belong to the Blood Elves as a group, they will start to look like them with the fel green eyes. High elves identify as such because they refused to use fel magic. This makes being a warlock a political statement in and of itself.

"Most of the remaining "high" elves had chosen to remain with the Alliance following the Second War and did not return to their kingdom following the Third. When Grand Magister Rommath returned to Quel'Thalas to teach them Kael's magic siphoning ways, some elves were disgusted by the practice — likening it to vampiric behavior — and opposed its use. Unable to lead a divided nation, Regent Lord Lor'themar exiled the dissenters from the kingdom."

The minority of high elves still exists because it's the ones that refused fel magic siphoning and were exiled. A warlock would have adopted the blood elf identity because they have no qualms about these practices and thus aren't part of the high elf exiles group.

Even if the elf warlock wants to go with the exiled high elves to the alliance, I don't think the high elves nor the alliance are willing to accept any fel magic using elf into their ranks, as that's the reason of the high elf/blood elf political split in the first place, and it's the reason there are no warlock high elves.

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Starkobjekt
Posts: 57

Re: Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Post by Starkobjekt » Thu May 06, 2021 9:19 am

Yes, searing pain causes 2x the damage in threat, non extra threat spells do 1x the damage in threat but this shouldn’t be hard to change, much easier than adding a new spell. Blood boil doesn’t work on elementals and undeads, half the pve encounters in vanilla

Edit: I main warlock and would love to play fire but a new spell is not needed, the rotation with immolate, conflag and searing pain is enough

Balake
Posts: 220

Re: Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Post by Balake » Thu May 06, 2021 4:35 pm

Starkobjekt wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:19 am
Yes, searing pain causes 2x the damage in threat, non extra threat spells do 1x the damage in threat but this shouldn’t be hard to change, much easier than adding a new spell. Blood boil doesn’t work on elementals and undeads, half the pve encounters in vanilla

Edit: I main warlock and would love to play fire but a new spell is not needed, the rotation with immolate, conflag and searing pain is enough
There's no reason why Blood Boil wouldn't work on elementals and undeads. It's a fire spell just like fireball or searing pain, and these work on everything except fire elementals.

Changing Searing Pain to cause normal threat is removing tank warlocks from the game. They are needed for the twin fight in AQ40, and it's good to have a threat ability as a warlock to save a healer since locks have the potential to be the tankiest class next to tanks in Vanilla.

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Qixel
Posts: 126

Re: Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Post by Qixel » Thu May 06, 2021 6:49 pm

While adding talents that remove the threat modifier of Searing Pain is an option, it would be far easier to just add Incinerate and simply make it Shadow-bolt-but-fire and make everything that applies to shadow bolt and other spells (like the reduced mana and increased range talent, but not imp shadow bolt or Nightfall) apply to Incinerate.

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Starkobjekt
Posts: 57

Re: Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Post by Starkobjekt » Thu May 06, 2021 6:52 pm

Balake wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 4:35 pm
There's no reason why Blood Boil wouldn't work on elementals and undeads. It's a fire spell just like fireball or searing pain, and these work on everything except fire elementals.

Changing Searing Pain to cause normal threat is removing tank warlocks from the game. They are needed for the twin fight in AQ40, and it's good to have a threat ability as a warlock to save a healer since locks have the potential to be the tankiest class next to tanks in Vanilla.
can't find the source now but according to whoever it was it didn't work or was not supposed to work on Elementals and Undead. How do you boil the blood of a skeleton or an elemental? Just like other mob type specific spells like hibernate, banish, polymorph, pickpocket, scare beast and the list goes on.
I'm not saying they should remove the extra threat from searing pain, just a way to decrease it to normal 1x to make the dps spec work.

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Starkobjekt
Posts: 57

Re: Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Post by Starkobjekt » Thu May 06, 2021 7:46 pm

Qixel wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 6:49 pm
While adding talents that remove the threat modifier of Searing Pain is an option, it would be far easier to just add Incinerate and simply make it Shadow-bolt-but-fire and make everything that applies to shadow bolt and other spells (like the reduced mana and increased range talent, but not imp shadow bolt or Nightfall) apply to Incinerate.
sure.. far easier to make a new damage spell when Searing Pain is enough for fire lock to be a viable dps spec given 50% decreased threat option. Searing pain have talent support compared to a new damage spell.

The threat reduction doesn't have to be a talent. Could be a buff spell, item or anything. Might even be possible to make it activated by accepting and turn-in a repeatable quest and removed by another repeatable quest, a passive spell.

Balake
Posts: 220

Re: Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Post by Balake » Thu May 06, 2021 7:57 pm

Or the best solution with no class changes is to make it tied to a set bonus for some fire spell power gear. Just a bonus that halves searing pain's threat generation.

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Starkobjekt
Posts: 57

Re: Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Post by Starkobjekt » Sat May 08, 2021 3:44 pm

Balake wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 7:57 pm
Or the best solution with no class changes is to make it tied to a set bonus for some fire spell power gear. Just a bonus that halves searing pain's threat generation.
I had that thought last week actually, I made these but they are too good right now, I think. I haven't calculated budget or anything, just an idea so far

https://dev.turtle-wow.org/#!/itemcreat ... JOVUxMIl0=
https://dev.turtle-wow.org/#!/itemcreat ... 5VTEwiXQ==
https://dev.turtle-wow.org/#!/itemcreat ... wiTlVMTCJd

Kinda wanted it to be an alternative to bloodvine set but fire specific. Set bonus would be decrease threat from Searing Pain by ~50% and maybe another set bonus that does something for fire mage, maybe increase the damage of scorch a tiny bit

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Starkobjekt
Posts: 57

Re: Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Post by Starkobjekt » Sat May 08, 2021 3:50 pm

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Last edited by Starkobjekt on Sun May 09, 2021 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kazgrim
Posts: 324

Re: Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Post by Kazgrim » Sun May 09, 2021 3:48 am

Balake wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:33 pm
A blood elf siphoning demons to sate their magical addiction is not the same as being a warlock, eitherwise every blood elf would be considered a warlock.

The difference between high elves and blood elves is allegience, and how they choose to sate their magical addiction. The high elves chose the Alliance, and Blood Elves forsake it. Blood elves siphon demons, high elves hoard magical trinkets and meditate. A high elf can become a warlock and choose not to siphon demons to cure their addiction (kind of like how a drug dealer doesnt snort his own coke), or perhaps more relative; kind of like a warlock that doesnt serve the burning legion. It goes to show that warlocks are very independent and do their own thing.

Also see the following: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Summoner_Nolric
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Balake
Posts: 220

Re: Incinerate like spell for warlock and more...

Post by Balake » Sun May 09, 2021 12:49 pm

Kazgrim wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 3:48 am
Balake wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:33 pm
A blood elf siphoning demons to sate their magical addiction is not the same as being a warlock, eitherwise every blood elf would be considered a warlock.

The difference between high elves and blood elves is allegience, and how they choose to sate their magical addiction. The high elves chose the Alliance, and Blood Elves forsake it. Blood elves siphon demons, high elves hoard magical trinkets and meditate. A high elf can become a warlock and choose not to siphon demons to cure their addiction (kind of like how a drug dealer doesnt snort his own coke), or perhaps more relative; kind of like a warlock that doesnt serve the burning legion. It goes to show that warlocks are very independent and do their own thing.

Also see the following: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Summoner_Nolric
Blood elves didn't forsake the alliance, the alliance (more specifically Garithos) forsake them so they turned into Illidan for help. That is immediately after the genocide, so they changed name to Blood Elves but they didn't start siphoning fel yet. I suppose all high elves became blood elves after the genocide, but then when almost everyone started siphoning demons, a minority of them refused and decided to revert back to identifying as High Elves so that they aren't associated with this new practice. It's illogical that a warlock would be of the few that refuse.

"Warlocks are the bane of all life. Empowered by demonic blood, they can inflict great torment upon their foes." from the character creation screen's class description.
Siphoning demons is a requirement to be a walock; it's one of the things they do and what makes them warlocks and not shadow priests or mages. It's not possible to be a warlock without siphoning fel magic in some way, though generally they do it for the power not because of an addiction. Yes, a blood elf siphoning demons to sate their magical addiction is not the same as being a warlock (lest every blood elf would be considered one). However:
1. to be a warlock one needs to siphon demons (they have abilities that sacrifice demons for buffs, blizzard can't get any more explicit than that).
2. high elves of the alliance are against siphoning demons, so warlock high elves can't exist.

I found that npc example while researching it, it is a cata addition though and this server only uses lore up to vanilla. Most likely explanation is that the character only exists for gameplay purposes and doesn't mean anything canonically.

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