Rogues with shields

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Unangwata
Posts: 141

Re: Rogues with shields

Post by Unangwata » Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:00 pm

or just raw armor and no chance to block

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Mephistopheles
Posts: 32

Re: Rogues with shields

Post by Mephistopheles » Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:31 pm

As I said, it’d require new modeling and creating new items, stat wise, procs, effects, can’t have just 5 bucklers in the whole game.
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Balake
Posts: 154

Re: Rogues with shields

Post by Balake » Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:46 pm

Mephistopheles wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:31 pm
As I said, it’d require new modeling and creating new items, stat wise, procs, effects, can’t have just 5 bucklers in the whole game.
Tell that to blizzard when they added relics kek

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Unangwata
Posts: 141

Re: Rogues with shields

Post by Unangwata » Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:55 pm

Mephistopheles wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:31 pm
As I said, it’d require new modeling and creating new items, stat wise, procs, effects, can’t have just 5 bucklers in the whole game.
Then forget it. Although 5 bucklers would be good enough lol.

Mac
Posts: 72

Re: Rogues with shields

Post by Mac » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:56 pm

A return of bucklers for Rogue and Hunters is definitely something I'd love to see.
Fizzeek wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:38 pm
My only concern here is losing a shield drop roll to a rogue :P

I'd be so mad! lol
Bucklers (which Rogues, Hunters, and Shaman could use) were a separate thing from shields. Think leather armor and mail armor, except it's bucklers and shields.
Mephistopheles wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:48 pm
Bucklers should in no way be the same as shields, it’d require new items, I say no.
Well, yes, but also technically no. According to the patch notes, when Hunters, Rogues, and Shaman lost the ability to use bucklers, all existing bucklers were converted into shields (and Shaman were granted shields). What it would take is re-itemizing those items (there are 96 bucklers currently in the database), probably by dropping the armor and block values by a certain percent (50%?). You'd also need to create a few new items for the raids and dungeons that were itemized after the fact. It's work, but doable.

Here are the patch notes from when bucklers were removed: Patch 0.8
Bucklers have been removed from the game. Shamans now have the ability to use shields; Rogues and Hunters can no longer use shields. All existing bucklers have been turned into shields.
One potential work around would be to give Rogues and Hunters the ability to use shields (not bucklers but shield shields), but have them get like 50% less armor and/or block values from the shields (like how Bear Form increases your armor contribution, except the other way around, and only applying to the shield). Another method might be to let them use shields without giving them Block, like Unangwata said.

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Unangwata
Posts: 141

Re: Rogues with shields

Post by Unangwata » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:51 pm

Yeah, perhaps the easiest way would be to just allow them shields without having ability to block. They wouldn't get much benefit from blocking anyways because most of that comes from str.
Although the view could be weird or interesting, bucklers were small.

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Skalman
Posts: 38

Re: Rogues with shields

Post by Skalman » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:42 am

The difference between a shield and a buckler is that a buckler is ALSO an offensive weapon, and that it protects less (in WoW should have less AL?) If correct with real world a bucker should be able to block (also).

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Sinrek
Posts: 638

Re: Rogues with shields

Post by Sinrek » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:53 am

Even though it's an interesting idea, the class design and abilities (not even mentioning talents) here aren't suited for this.

Clearly, this won't be implemented. Like … ever.
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Unangwata
Posts: 141

Re: Rogues with shields

Post by Unangwata » Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:48 am

Sinrek wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:53 am
Even though it's an interesting idea, the class design and abilities (not even mentioning talents) here aren't suited for this.

Clearly, this won't be implemented. Like … ever.
what u mean by class design? No need any abilities or talents. It's just an offhand item, just need to be able to wear it.

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Sinrek
Posts: 638

Re: Rogues with shields

Post by Sinrek » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:39 pm

Unangwata wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:48 am
Sinrek wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:53 am
Even though it's an interesting idea, the class design and abilities (not even mentioning talents) here aren't suited for this.

Clearly, this won't be implemented. Like … ever.
what u mean by class design? No need any abilities or talents. It's just an offhand item, just need to be able to wear it.
Rogues designed to deal damage. Not fetching a useless buckler they'd never even have any use for. Off-hand dagger is much better than any buckler.
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Unangwata
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Re: Rogues with shields

Post by Unangwata » Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:01 pm

Obviously people think different

Balake
Posts: 154

Re: Rogues with shields

Post by Balake » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:00 pm

Unangwata wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:01 pm
Obviously people think different
Shields might be too bulky for rogues who are supposed to be agile and discrete, they rely on dodging and dirty tricks for their survivability (The best defensive tool is killing your enemy turtle_tongue ). This is represented gameplay-wise with their many cooldowns that fit this unconventionally, indirectly augmenting their survivability while keeping the squishy rogue fantasy intact (Evasion, vanish, kick, kidney shot, sprint), like trying to swat a very annoying fly. Slapping protective armor onto the fly just doesn't make sense. Not to mention it being a balancing nightmare.

Hunters could find some uses for shields I guess as they already have distracting shot and not much in terms of defensive cooldowns.

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Unangwata
Posts: 141

Re: Rogues with shields

Post by Unangwata » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:28 pm

Balake wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:00 pm
Unangwata wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:01 pm
Obviously people think different
Shields might be too bulky for rogues who are supposed to be agile and discrete, they rely on dodging and dirty tricks for their survivability (The best defensive tool is killing your enemy turtle_tongue ). This is represented gameplay-wise with their many cooldowns that fit this unconventionally, indirectly augmenting their survivability while keeping the squishy rogue fantasy intact (Evasion, vanish, kick, kidney shot, sprint), like trying to swat a very annoying fly. Slapping protective armor onto the fly just doesn't make sense. Not to mention it being a balancing nightmare.

Hunters could find some uses for shields I guess as they already have distracting shot and not much in terms of defensive cooldowns.
Yeah, but rouges are versatile, use dirty trick and anything at their disposal. Wouldn't be surprised if one used a shield.

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Sinrek
Posts: 638

Re: Rogues with shields

Post by Sinrek » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:37 pm

Unangwata wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:28 pm
Yeah, but rouges are versatile, use dirty trick and anything at their disposal. Wouldn't be surprised if one used a shield.
He'd be dead faster than that fly.
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Jezza
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Re: Rogues with shields

Post by Jezza » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:27 pm

As a sort of soft compromise, would it be possible to transmog an off-hand item into a buckler? By off-hand I mean those specific items like orbs, cups, bottles, and walking sticks. Rogues still couldn’t block, but you get the buckler and whatever stats the offhand had (don’t know if there’s any good ones with agil tbh).

I’m just not sure if they show in combat...

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