BOTS

Warrians
Posts: 21

Re: BOTS

Post by Warrians » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:22 pm

Kazgrim wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:23 pm
Perhaps some sort of flag players can place on one another. Flag the 'bot', and if the player doesn't respond in 30 minutes, he gets kicked. Being afk would not allow the player to be flagged.
Thank you. This is what i meant in the first post, i wanted to give one idea, no matter how bad, and then let the community give better ideas than mine.

Warrians
Posts: 21

Re: BOTS

Post by Warrians » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:41 pm

Idea number 2 :

"Glyph of Fair Play" (COST: 200 tokens or more )

This glyph allows the player to use the custom command mentioned before, OR any other idea that is made viable and approved by Staff.

This would force a player to devote the fruit of their HC playtime (Or their donations) to get access to the anti bot feature and then be able to actively aid in checking for a BOT suspect when staff is unavailable.

Anyone still crazy enough to spend tokens just to get a troll / griefing tool could be reported by the offended party and , after staff investigation, would lose the glyphs privileges. This would be added to the rules. Persistence in re-obtaining the glyph and grieving players with it would lead to a ban after confirmation.


If such an item were to be added, i know where i would spend my HC rewards.

Like any and every idea, of course it needs checking and tweaking. But please, i know you can do more than just saying NO and why it wont work. Add your idea here as well.

Manual intervention will never defeat automated action, unless those who constantly use a given forum get involved - Making an account is free, getting a new IP is even easier. We saw ONE bored guy deciding he wanted some lols and attention for a few hours of his AFK time. Soon, this server will make an active effort to attract more attention with the new patch, and we wont get just the fair players. In my experience, each botter can effortlessly maintain dozens of characters at once. If you have an idea on how to weed the problem while its still "insignificant", then please share. Thank you for your time.

Balake
Posts: 133

Re: BOTS

Post by Balake » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:40 pm

We won't get just the fair players of course. But as I said before the non-fair players will quit when they realize they are wasting their time. There is no point in botting if they're going to get banned anyways. It does not matter if it happens immediately or takes days, everything they do can be easily reverted and they will have to try again from point 0 with a new IP.

Roxanneflowers
Posts: 102

Re: BOTS

Post by Roxanneflowers » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:17 pm

Warrians wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:41 pm
"Glyph of Fair Play" (COST: 200 tokens or more)
So ... Pay2Ban ...?

I strongly suspect this idea won't work out the way you think it might ...

Warrians
Posts: 21

Re: BOTS

Post by Warrians » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:58 pm

Roxanneflowers wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:17 pm
Warrians wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:41 pm
"Glyph of Fair Play" (COST: 200 tokens or more)
So ... Pay2Ban ...?

I strongly suspect this idea won't work out the way you think it might ...
i would gladly level a 60 hc character, or two or 3, just to prove worthy of the right to the feature. The point would be to create a strong limiter, since "grieving fair players with the tool" seems to be a concern. Well, a player who spent whole /played days working on their character wouldnt misuse the feature. A player who actually opened their wallet for the feature would hardly misuse it, and if done, like I said, the offended party would still have the proper channels to get the misuse undone.

Warrians
Posts: 21

Re: BOTS

Post by Warrians » Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:11 pm

Balake wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:40 pm
We won't get just the fair players of course. But as I said before the non-fair players will quit when they realize they are wasting their time. There is no point in botting if they're going to get banned anyways. It does not matter if it happens immediately or takes days, everything they do can be easily reverted and they will have to try again from point 0 with a new IP.
I worked the banhammer before for a few months. By protocol, i had to first confirm the issue, take screenshots, prove the offense, take more screenshots, sit the offender at gm islands jail, interrogate, take their version of the story (please try to imagine waiting for the story of a BOT. No, cheaters hardly come to check their bots unless they are online AND amused, getting out of AFK to check your bot kills the purpose of botting, which is to gather exp and mats while you are afk or even completely gone ) ; take more screenshots, get the whole player ID data and file everything in forum to justify a ban. On top of all that, the ban could still be disputed.

Regardless of the differences between protocol over there and here, the process takes a lot longer than it takes to make a new account.

Now this is personal and argueable, but, In my experience, when you take the candy off a cheater multiple times, they feel that is a challenge and decide to show you how easier and faster it is to double whatever ammount of BOTS you banned.

Can staff win that manually ? YEs, eventually the cheaters will get bored and leave. Is that a fast process? No, its time better spent taking care of other server issues, so eventually staff gives up first and then its back to happy cheating. How to manually win ???? More staff and more time invested per member. Is that the easier way ? Sorry but no.

If you automate ways for players who are always there (even taking turns with their diferent gaming hours) to flag a cheater, it turns every involved player into a helper, and it tightens the freedom of cheaters. Is that required? No, you guys dont have a "BOTOPOLIS" yet. But you might, once the server starts advertising its next release, once the online numbers start rolling up and once this server become a better and better candidate for cheating.

Khazeig
Posts: 5

Re: BOTS

Post by Khazeig » Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:05 pm

I think I’m of the opinion most people have, you’re trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist. Having people spend hard earned or bought tokens on a special boy bot police badge sounds like a terrible idea. If you think someone is a bot report it and move on with your day, what’s wrong with that system?

Khazeig
Posts: 5

Re: BOTS

Post by Khazeig » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:05 am

Sorry but I only skimmed your previous comment but after fully reading it I think you may have concocted a fictional bot world that only exists in your mind. Report and carry on Is my advice.

Warrians
Posts: 21

Re: BOTS

Post by Warrians » Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:06 pm

Khazeig wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:05 pm
I think I’m of the opinion most people have, you’re trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist. Having people spend hard earned or bought tokens on a special boy bot police badge sounds like a terrible idea. If you think someone is a bot report it and move on with your day, what’s wrong with that system?
"terriblle" idea? Anyone FORCING YOU to take the glyph? No. It would be an offer for people willing to prove a commitment to the server. Nothing more. The ending result would just log activity to aid staff.


Whats wrong with that system ? I ve worked on the other end of it, and its terrible. It would be easier to list whats NOT wrong with that system.

Whats NOT wrong with that system - it requires staff to tripple check the botting, which is pretty nice in order to be fair with the possible "false positive" , if you disregard time required .

Whats wrong with that system - If you take into account the time and luck required for administration to chase a bot infestation.... It slows pretty much everything else that has to be done.

Like i said before if the FIRST idea is terrible, then by all means post better ideas. There is no need to reply this just to say "leave it as is", that is probably whats going to happen anyway.

This post was a lot longer before, i spent my time making note of how we had 3 more identified bots just yesterday and how one of them was previously flagged by most of the online community of that day as being a botter.

Id like to thank staff for taking action on it, but i insist that it could* be made more efficient by devising a way to empower willing members with the ability to log them out in a fair manner, so the server could be under watch at all times.

Khazeig
Posts: 5

Re: BOTS

Post by Khazeig » Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:46 am

So... by your own admission the system works?

Axoc
Posts: 37

Re: BOTS

Post by Axoc » Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:23 am

The last thing I want is somebody with a personal problem coming after me and forcing me to log out because of their personal grudge. A not-insignificant portion of the playerbase here wishes lasher farming was nerfed, for example. I lasher farm. How could this "pay money to kick someone" badge system not be abused to prevent me from lasher farming, hunters from tribute farming, or someone from afk farming nodes or slow-spawning mobs like High Chief Winterfall? How is this badge idea not pay to win?
Hard no, especially because legitimate critiques have so far been met with out of touch replies that disregard constructive criticism instead of incorporating the legitimate critiques.

Roxanneflowers
Posts: 102

Re: BOTS

Post by Roxanneflowers » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:33 am

Axoc wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:23 am
Hard no, especially because legitimate critiques have so far been met with out of touch replies that disregard constructive criticism instead of incorporating the legitimate critiques.
+2

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Skalman
Posts: 17

Re: BOTS

Post by Skalman » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:29 am

I never understood why bots is a problem in games. You don't HAVE TO buy from them. You don't have to HAVE TO get envy of them having much stuff or gold. You can make your own rules, eg. "I'm going to get all stuff myself by playing the game." Sure, it takes time doing all yourself (occasionally with some help of a group of nice people), but are you in a rush? And lastely, this is NOT a competition who has the most money or the best gear. This is Turtle WoW. We play for fun!

Balake
Posts: 133

Re: BOTS

Post by Balake » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:33 am

Skalman wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:29 am
I never understood why bots is a problem in games. You don't HAVE TO buy from them. You don't have to HAVE TO get envy of them having much stuff or gold. You can make your own rules, eg. "I'm going to get all stuff myself by playing the game." Sure, it takes time doing all yourself (occasionally with some help of a group of nice people), but are you in a rush? And lastely, this is NOT a competition who has the most money or the best gear. This is Turtle WoW. We play for fun!
Bots hurt the economy and make things harder for other players. Botting is a problem and bots must be banned, but it's not urgent enough to warrant some bot hunter shenanigans or intrusive reporting methods. Tickets might take some time to answer and that's fine. GMs can revert all the damage done (which is already not a lot cause turtle wow is slow paced and the botter is just wasting their time).

User avatar
Skalman
Posts: 17

Re: BOTS

Post by Skalman » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:43 pm

Bots doesn't hurt any economy if you just ignore them, including ignore them on AH. Buying and selling on AH does not affect your game play if you ignore the AH all together! Just play the game and get (the) stuff, and vendor your loot. Buying (or selling) on the AH is not the path to happiness.
Complaining about bots is nothing else than being envy of other people - because you know how the game should be played, and others do it wrongly ... right?

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