BOTS

Warrians
Posts: 21

BOTS

Post by Warrians » Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:33 pm

When staff is busy to the point they can not police the environment (We all have to sleep, eat and work, and cheaters know that!) and also unwilling to recruit more help due to their own reasons, one good idea is to implement systems that allow the community to take care of its own environment to an extent.

Different versions of this idea have been implemented with success in other games, and became permanent assets (the anti cheat daemon comes to mind).

- implement a command to send a query to the target player, it should be on screen if possible as to prevent text scroll from disrupting it. The query would ask for a reply (also in command format) to makee the query cease. If the player fails to answer in time, they are disconnected with a very short ban and their activity is logged for staff to review at a later date. To prevent this from being used to grief an afk player, the query timer will not advance if the player is detected by the system as being afk (or maybe the timer will only tick if the character IS interacting with the environment rather than being still. )

If its impossible to stick the query to their face and if only the regular text window can be used, then have the query be repeated to the player at a regular interval along with the timer. A player that is already under antibot query can not be queried again during the process.

Once a target passes the anti bot query, they get a average duration buff preventing them from receiving the query again until its over.


Of course this idea will have holes to be fixed, tweaking the system on the go is part of any attempt to counter foul play in a game like this.

If this idea in not viable, then please consider another one (if you are just a turtle wow player like me, then add your own idea here). We all saw how just ONE attention h0e could stir nearly the whole server out of their routine. Think about it for a while.

Suwuxiv
Posts: 8

Re: BOTS

Post by Suwuxiv » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:43 pm

Sounds like something that could be abused to torment real players. Big fat nope.

Just get more staff.

Balake
Posts: 136

Re: BOTS

Post by Balake » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:56 pm

Botters have systems that alert them when the bot character is interacted with by another player so the real person can take over to solve it. Can also be used to grief, like in PvP. Just create a macro that for /report @target or whatever the command would be and use it in 1v1s to distract your opponent and restrict their vision.

Warrians
Posts: 21

Re: BOTS

Post by Warrians » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:10 am

Balake wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:56 pm
Botters have systems that alert them when the bot character is interacted with by another player so the real person can take over to solve it. Can also be used to grief, like in PvP. Just create a macro that for /report @target or whatever the command would be and use it in 1v1s to distract your opponent and restrict their vision.
Like i said of course it requires tweaking - Disabling it in bgs and in duels is one idea.

Warrians
Posts: 21

Re: BOTS

Post by Warrians » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:13 am

Suwuxiv wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:43 pm
Sounds like something that could be abused to torment real players. Big fat nope.

Just get more staff.
I spent half of the post trying to round ideas and options to counter player griefing. Not sure you read it whole.

Shall we hear some of your ideas then? I dont see that "just get more staff" thought being worked on. I couldnt even find a recruitment thread yet, or else id be there.

Fizzeek
Posts: 4

Re: BOTS

Post by Fizzeek » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:45 am

I've recently had an orc come up to me and my brother in Tarren Mill accusing us of being bots, going so far as to try and call it out in world chat. Proceeded to follow us around and give us grief about "being so suspicious". Grilling us about why my brother's run animation wouldn't stop (common bug I've found on this server where your character never stops moving its legs, usually accompanied by being unable to loot or really do much else until you relog).


I don't know if I've ever run into ANY bots on this server, but I do know that I've run into people who think it's alright to harass others based on some stupid suspicion they had, and frankly I'd rather play with bots.

Axoc
Posts: 38

Re: BOTS

Post by Axoc » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:22 am

There is absolutely some kind of bot hysteria going on right now. Only three characters that I'm aware of were suspected to be bots and they've been under investigation by the dev team. A delayed reaction (delayed in your opinion) from the dev team does not mean that they are ignoring the situation. Er has already said that the team is aware and is investigating.

TWoW is a multilingual server. Last time I checked, we have 8 different populations here that all have their own language. Across ~150-200 players. There's a very high chance that whoever you're speaking to doesn't speak English or doesn't care to struggle through it. Ignoring people who harass you is also a very legitimate technique both IRL and online, so if someone you're harassing is ignoring you, that doesn't immediately mean they're a bot.

Since the first bots were detected, I've seen (and I haven't even been on that much since the first ones were detected) 7 false reports similar to Fizzeek's and for 2 of those 7 characters, World chat seemed to unironically think that those 2 characters were bots whose owners had returned to their computers mid-harassment.

People ought to chill out. Let the staff handle it. Stop harassing people. Stop shilling the implementation of griefing techniques. If you think a character is a bot, record footage of them & send it to the staff in order to help them in their investigation.

Suwuxiv
Posts: 8

Re: BOTS

Post by Suwuxiv » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:11 am

Warrians wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:13 am
I spent half of the post trying to round ideas and options to counter player griefing. Not sure you read it whole.

Shall we hear some of your ideas then? I dont see that "just get more staff" thought being worked on. I couldnt even find a recruitment thread yet, or else id be there.
Ya, sorry I didn't like any of them. They're all too invasive as far as solutions go.

When it comes to dealing with bots and cheating you have to walk a fine line so as not to hinder the playing experience of those who don't abuse such things. And things like pop-up confirmations that any old player could use on others to verify whether someone is a bot or not definitely falls under hindering the experience for me. Like really, just think about it for a moment..

Really the only solution that doesn't is more GM's. And while there may be a lack of a recruitment thread anywhere I have seen some people make their way up the ranks. Maybe speak directly with Torta about it?

Balake
Posts: 136

Re: BOTS

Post by Balake » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:52 pm

Is it really a problem if it takes a little bit for the GMs to look at the ticket? When the botter gets banned they lose the character if they were grinding XP and it's possible to track their interaction history with other players so if they're moving their gold to their main it's possible to also ban that. That puts the botter back at square one and reverts all the harm they do to the server.

Roxanneflowers
Posts: 112

Re: BOTS

Post by Roxanneflowers » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:47 pm

The simple fact of the matter is that for some people ... Instant Gratification™ simply isn't fast enough.

There will always be Veruca Salt people in this world.
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Warrians
Posts: 21

Re: BOTS

Post by Warrians » Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:09 pm

Fizzeek wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:45 am
I've recently had an orc come up to me and my brother in Tarren Mill accusing us of being bots, going so far as to try and call it out in world chat. Proceeded to follow us around and give us grief about "being so suspicious". Grilling us about why my brother's run animation wouldn't stop (common bug I've found on this server where your character never stops moving its legs, usually accompanied by being unable to loot or really do much else until you relog).


I don't know if I've ever run into ANY bots on this server, but I do know that I've run into people who think it's alright to harass others based on some stupid suspicion they had, and frankly I'd rather play with bots.
the legs not quit moving usually happen around me when i see people who are lagging.

Friend, if there were never a bot issue, this post wouldnt be here. Pleople must be oblivious to world chat if they didnt notice the botamageddon day. And yes im exageratting a bit on purpose. People would rather play with bots , until they ruin the economy. Is the guy gone? Probably. Will him be back? Whenever he wants to, and in waves. Nvm if you dont care, i just do.

Balake
Posts: 136

Re: BOTS

Post by Balake » Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:29 pm

This server is a huge timesink for almost no reward. The botters will figure out that this is not a server you wanna be botting in eventually and quit. I don't think botters are okay with grinding at x1 rates only to get their character banned.

Steyr
Posts: 22

Re: BOTS

Post by Steyr » Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:41 pm

I think the whole thing about botting is hyped too much.

For me, people that buy stuff off AH - that is there at reduced prices DELIBERATELY to make the game easier for new players - and reposting it retardedly overpriced, just because they want "moar goldz", or because some addon tells them so, ruin the economy much more than someone that bots mining / cloth gathering to toss it for sale later.
There are some servers that have staff-added bots to fill auctions with random stuff to simulate a running economy, and even on turtle-wow forums there are threads with people asking for npc bots as hirelings. I honestly don't see how one or two botters can seriously ruin the server.

Any automated system to prevent hacks / botting is an extra load on the server and, honestly, in over 12 years of custom servers I have never seen any such system that would work at acceptable efficiency. If we implement any automatic system, prepare for increased lag, to be randomly booted when flying on a gryphon or charging through a hill.

IMO, people should make staff aware of possible botting and let them deal with it, because, as it has already been said, any community-based system can be used to disrupt legitimate player gameplay.

Having said that, increasing staff number does sound like a good idea, even if those are only staff members that deal with tickets / bots. But we should not forget that every staff member is a volunteer and is devoting his free time to sort out other people's problems. As soon as most individuals realize that being a GM doesn't manifest in swinging banhammer left and right, but rather doing boring "paper"-work, you are immediately left with lack of working hands.

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Kazgrim
Posts: 287

Re: BOTS

Post by Kazgrim » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:23 pm

Perhaps some sort of flag players can place on one another. Flag the 'bot', and if the player doesn't respond in 30 minutes, he gets kicked. Being afk would not allow the player to be flagged.
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Warrians
Posts: 21

Re: BOTS

Post by Warrians » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:21 pm

Axoc wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:22 am
TWoW is a multilingual server. Last time I checked, we have 8 different populations here that all have their own language. Across ~150-200 players. There's a very high chance that whoever you're speaking to doesn't speak English or doesn't care to struggle through it. Ignoring people who harass you is also a very legitimate technique both IRL and online, so if someone you're harassing is ignoring you, that doesn't immediately mean they're a bot.
In my opinion, language is not nor will ever be an excuse. You need basic English in order to sign up for this server, like any other. You need basic English in order to PLAY, and even if you use a translated client, you need basic English to interact with the community and with item links. This is not a single player game, theres no getting around basic English, neiither here nor on the internet as a whole. A query doesnt need to be language specific, the core of the query could be a basic math equation like many other games use.

A person who can not identify, in the mid of a system message, a query for an equation they use on a daily basis ( "I am not a BOT!" systems) will also not be able to properly react to a system warning that the server will shut down for maintenance in 30 minutes (and its their own fault if they are caught in the mid of something in the meanwhile).

Systems like these are used everywhere by every game and their mothers. I dont see why not trying something similar. I know that emulation wont give you full control over the game engine, but maybe administration and the dev team could come to something close by using custom commands and then limiting who can use them.

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