Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

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Kalocsa
Posts: 27

Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

Post by Kalocsa » Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:55 am

This spell is ignoring armor. So it's a big + feature in pvp for paladins.

Also Plainsrunning is disabled in battleground, so why holy strike should work in BG?

My only question is to take care of an unbalanced thing.

I my advice, both should be disabled OR enabled.
Baldr, A Dwarf legacy. https://youtu.be/AtNVD9B3f3s

Roxanneflowers
Posts: 112

Re: Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

Post by Roxanneflowers » Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:10 am

Kalocsa wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:55 am
This spell is ignoring armor. So it's a big + feature in pvp for paladins.
Spell damage bypasses armor.
Who knew?
Kalocsa wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:55 am
I my advice, both should be disabled OR enabled.
I am Scissors.
Paper is fine.
NERF ROCK!!!

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Kalocsa
Posts: 27

Re: Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

Post by Kalocsa » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:16 pm

This is not about paper rock scissors. Because in fact, this is the nature of vanilla in 1.12.

Warriors got rekt by frostmages.
Shaman enhancement are useless agains't hunters.
Rogues are destroyed by 8sec dps warriors etc etc.

The fact is just: this dispell ignore armor. And then, that type of things happens.

i got holy striked at 1k2 with a r14 gear/weapon and it also got crit with a 1k7.

This spell is just not okay for pvp, even if it changes the nature of a paladin in pve. This holy strike is like plainsrunning.

It has no goal to stay compared to the problem it occurs.

I mean a mortal or heroic strike could crit more than 1k7, anyway, it's physical damage.

This spell is just outpassing all armor in a melee situation influenced by the weapon damage.

If no one are seeing what is wrong. It's maybe because 50% of the population are playing paladins at the moment. And the others are not checking their combat log apparently.

I mean, rogues have cosmetic useless disguise, taurens have disabled plainsrunning in BG, Mages have the ability to sustain the utility of a rogue in lockpicking. And paladins are outplaying everything plated better than a shaman enhancement with this new feature. Alright! wary_turtle
Baldr, A Dwarf legacy. https://youtu.be/AtNVD9B3f3s

Balake
Posts: 136

Re: Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

Post by Balake » Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:13 pm

I think the problem is it gives paladins instant burst which goes against their identity. Reckbombs can oneshot too but they need preparation to do it, they can't just run up to you and hit you like a truck every few seconds. Being holy damage is not the problem in itself, it's being able to deal this holy damage immediately at the start of the battle that shouldn't happen on a battle-of-attrition class. Maybe if Judgement of the crusader was reworked to ramp up, starting much weaker than it currently is to nerf paladins in leveling and pvp, but eventually stack up to higher than it currently gives to give them a buff in long pve fights.

Roxanneflowers
Posts: 112

Re: Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

Post by Roxanneflowers » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:46 pm

Paladins are melee monsters.
Paladins cannot equip ranged weapons.
They can equip ranged Engineering items, but those have long(ish) cooldowns.
Judgement range is 10 yards.

If you're in melee range of a (hostile) Paladin in PvP, that's kind of your fault for being within reach of them being able to hurt you.

Or to put it another way ... your tears are delicious ...

Balake
Posts: 136

Re: Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

Post by Balake » Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:04 am

Roxanneflowers wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:46 pm
Paladins are melee monsters.
Paladins cannot equip ranged weapons.
They can equip ranged Engineering items, but those have long(ish) cooldowns.
Judgement range is 10 yards.

If you're in melee range of a (hostile) Paladin in PvP, that's kind of your fault for being within reach of them being able to hurt you.

Or to put it another way ... your tears are delicious ...
But paladins are not a juggernaut that crushes everyone in range, that's not their identity. That fits death knights and warriors more in my opinion. It's true that paladins should have decent damage potential if they can reach you forcing you to kite them, but their damage is extremely front-loaded while it should be more spread out or ramp up. I'm guessing that's also what Blizzard was going for during the beta with Crusader Strike having to be stacked up for Holy Strike to shine.

Mac
Posts: 67

Re: Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

Post by Mac » Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:58 pm

There was another thread on the topic. I think the biggest part of the problem is Horde not having access to Holy Strike. There definitely is a lot of griping in battlegrounds over Holy Strike on the Horde side. Personally, I'd like to see battlegrounds have mixed teams (so if 3 Alliance and 1 Horde are queued for Warsong Gulch, you get a WSG with two Alliance on one team and one Alliance one Horde on the other). That would also help with queues. Horde and Alliance can already group together, so it's not that far out there. Only Alterac Valley would be a problem.
I'd also like to see Horde get Paladins and Alliance get Shaman. Again, Horde and Alliance can already group up, so why not? In fact, I think a good paid feature would be letting people play whatever weird race/class combo they want for turtle coins, so if you want to play a Night Elf Warlock, you can. Putting it behind a paywall will keep the race/class combos fairly rare.
Basically, if Horde also had Holy Striking Paladins, I think a lot of the complaints would go down. But who knows, maybe there'd be more complaints when the Alliance started getting Holy Struck.

Tomas1983
Posts: 22
Location: Netherlands

Re: Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

Post by Tomas1983 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:51 pm

Gms all play ally
this wont ever get fixed
Antsy 60 dwarf rogue
Apsalar 60 NE huntard

Warrians
Posts: 21

Re: Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

Post by Warrians » Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:50 pm

Mac wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:58 pm
There was another thread on the topic. I think the biggest part of the problem is Horde not having access to Holy Strike. There definitely is a lot of griping in battlegrounds over Holy Strike on the Horde side. Personally, I'd like to see battlegrounds have mixed teams (so if 3 Alliance and 1 Horde are queued for Warsong Gulch, you get a WSG with two Alliance on one team and one Alliance one Horde on the other). That would also help with queues. Horde and Alliance can already group together, so it's not that far out there. Only Alterac Valley would be a problem.
I'd also like to see Horde get Paladins and Alliance get Shaman. Again, Horde and Alliance can already group up, so why not? In fact, I think a good paid feature would be letting people play whatever weird race/class combo they want for turtle coins, so if you want to play a Night Elf Warlock, you can. Putting it behind a paywall will keep the race/class combos fairly rare.
Basically, if Horde also had Holy Striking Paladins, I think a lot of the complaints would go down. But who knows, maybe there'd be more complaints when the Alliance started getting Holy Struck.
And how are you going to deal with the "class x faction" quests, and the npcs they point to ? Are you goin to rewrite them all ? Have you tried a shaman without the totems ? When draenei got shaman class, they got every single quest to fix their situation in the world. So, should turtle wow "fix" that by just letting every class have every spell without a quest ? That would turn VANILLA into WTOLK+, and I, for one, would quit.

Mac
Posts: 67

Re: Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

Post by Mac » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:13 pm

Warrians wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:50 pm
And how are you going to deal with the "class x faction" quests, and the npcs they point to ? Are you goin to rewrite them all ? Have you tried a shaman without the totems ? When draenei got shaman class, they got every single quest to fix their situation in the world. So, should turtle wow "fix" that by just letting every class have every spell without a quest ? That would turn VANILLA into WTOLK+, and I, for one, would quit.
Make Alliance shaman class quests and Horde paladin class quests that mirror the pre-existing quests, because it’s not like this server doesn’t have custom quests already. In fact, there’s at least one custom quest for the Alliance that is a mirror of a Horde quest in-game.

Balake
Posts: 136

Re: Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

Post by Balake » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:41 pm

I don't like the idea of every race being able to play as any class. Some combinations will just never make sense no matter how they try to make it work. Not to mention needing to add class trainers and quests in every starting zone for every possible combination and how this will reduce variety instead of increasing it as one of the factors stopping humans for example from dominating too much is that there are some classes that can't be human.

Mac
Posts: 67

Re: Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

Post by Mac » Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:42 pm

Balake wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:41 pm
Not to mention needing to add class trainers and quests in every starting zone for every possible combination and how this will reduce variety instead of increasing it as one of the factors stopping humans for example from dominating too much is that there are some classes that can't be human.
Would you? Let's say you make a Gnome Druid. Instead of starting out in the Dwarf/Gnome starting area, you start out in the Night Elf starting area, and are able to do the quests and use the trainers there, with no need to add any class trainers or quests. It'd make logical sense, too. It'd be like studying abroad. If it's behind a paid feature only, not everyone will access it (you could make it costs more turtle coins than you'd earn from hardcore mode).

The only ones you'd need to add trainers and quests for are the faction specific classes (Paladin/Shaman). You could just keep those classes faction specific if you don't want to add trainers and quests.

I just think it'd be a good, fair way for the server to get some more donations. I've talked to a few people who said they wanted to play weird race/class combos, and when I asked if they'd be willing to donate for it, there definitely was interest.

Balake
Posts: 136

Re: Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

Post by Balake » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:19 pm

Being for turtle coins makes it mesh even worse with me... It could be P2W As a certain race that's normally inaccessible to a class has racials that are more suited for it than the other races. Like horde warlocks would go Troll for the casting speed racial.

Mac
Posts: 67

Re: Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

Post by Mac » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:48 pm

Balake wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:19 pm
Being for turtle coins makes it mesh even worse with me... It could be P2W As a certain race that's normally inaccessible to a class has racials that are more suited for it than the other races. Like horde warlocks would go Troll for the casting speed racial.
If there is a broken race/class combination, they could just balance around it or disallow it, but I don't see anything massively overpowered. I don't think Troll Warlocks would be any more OP than, say, a Troll Mage. I don't even think Troll Warlocks would be better than Undead or Gnome Warlocks. They'd be better than Human Warlocks I guess, but isn't that a good thing if you're anti-too many people playing Humans? It just doesn't seem Pay 2 Win to me, but rather Pay 2 Be Different. I suppose there will be people who are going to think different is better, though. Grass is always green and so on.

Balake
Posts: 136

Re: Disable holy strike in battlegrounds?

Post by Balake » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:18 pm

Pay 2 be different is fine, people like to stand out and donating is a good way to support the server but I think something as important as class and race choice should be kept out of the donation system. Pay 2 be different as long as the difference does not affect gameplay.

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