High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

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Qixel
Posts: 92

High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

Post by Qixel » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:27 am

So it's not secret that high elves can be priests with the coming update, but what is unknown is what their racial spells will be. Alliance priests have always had the issue that Fear Ward is so much stronger than anything else available to them that to not play a dwarf is intentionally weakening yourself and your group, so it seems a shoe-in for the high elf priest, but what if high elves had something else to offer? Something the vast paladin population of the alliance would love, but cannot have? What if High Elf priests got Crusader Strike?

Now, it doesn't have to be the removed paladin ability, with it's melee attack aspect. High Elf priests are confined to a custom patch, and that means that they could have a custom spell that merely mimics Crusader Strike's debuff, while otherwise acting seperately. Here's what I propose.
Crusader Strike (Ranks 1-5)
~ Mana 30 yd range
2.5 sec cast 15 sec cooldown
Smite an enemy for ~ to ~ Holy damage and increases the holy damage taken by the target by up to ~ per Crusader Strike. Can be applied up to 5 times. Lasts 30 sec.
Obviously higher ranks would do more damage and have a more potent debuff (the removed ability ranged from 6-30 added damage per stack), but what does this change compared to just giving it to paladins? For one thing, it does not immediately make paladins the strongest dps class in the game by virtue of giving them a spammable attack(which also lets melee hunters retain their gimmick of best proc fisher), but gives them a boost in pve while remaining relatively the same in pvp. As it increases all holy damage, it's the perfect supplement for a smite priest, and it's self contained. The 15 second cooldown means that a single high elf priest will take over a minute to get the debuff to full capacity, but five priests working in concert can see results much quicker, which is incredibly flavorful.

Crusader Strike, especially reworked in such a manner, gives high elf priests an alternative to simply stealing fear ward from their stout compatriots, and opens up new gameplay styles in the process. Of course, priests are allowed two racial spells, so theoretically they could have both. ;D

Please consider this exciting idea. I believe it's a nice compromise between paladins getting crusader strike and being ridiculously powerful and not getting it at all. More importantly, it gives Smite Priests a fun new toy that we'd love. <3

Axoc
Posts: 38

Re: High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

Post by Axoc » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:37 am

I like this idea. I think the debuff may need some careful attention since Paladins have Holy Strike - there could be a pretty big accidental buff to pallies depending on how good CS's debuff is. Smite priest is one of those specs that was an original design but was eventually scrapped, so I think buffing Smite priests to be relevant fits the project goals of Turtle WoW VERY similarly to how pallies were buffed.

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Mrkrissatan
Posts: 87

Re: High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

Post by Mrkrissatan » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:48 am

Sounds good to me

Balake
Posts: 136

Re: High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

Post by Balake » Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:44 pm

It takes very long to ramp up, will most likely only be noticeable in very long raid fights and will also take up a debuff slot.

On a different note, I think the name Crusader's Strike does not fit. Priests are not Crusaders, and a strike is done with a weapon.

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Sinrek
Posts: 630

Re: High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

Post by Sinrek » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:11 pm

If the effect from this strike would be baked into Smite with holy talents then that'd make sense. This I would support with my all limbs.
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Balake
Posts: 136

Re: High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

Post by Balake » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:15 pm

Sinrek wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:11 pm
If the effect from this strike would be baked into Smite with holy talents then that'd make sense. This I would support with my all limbs.
Maybe if it was put in Holy Fire's dot and made it stack which could give smite priests a sort of rotation. Stack up the debuff with holy fire, then smite and keep the holy fire refreshed.

Roxanneflowers
Posts: 112

Re: High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

Post by Roxanneflowers » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:35 pm

I'd be perfectly happy with a copy/paste of Arcane Missiles from Mages onto High Elf Priests.

Balake
Posts: 136

Re: High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

Post by Balake » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:56 pm

Roxanneflowers wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:35 pm
I'd be perfectly happy with a copy/paste of Arcane Missiles from Mages onto High Elf Priests.
Why would they do that though? It's uncreative/unoriginal and night elves already get Starshards.

Mac
Posts: 67

Re: High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

Post by Mac » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:57 pm

I think a retooled Crusader Strike is a good idea. I'd be fine with it being instant with like a 6 to 10 second cooldown. You could call it Divine Shock since Holy Shock is taken.

To add to this, there's a few unused Priest spells that could be added in as racial spells for High Elves (or Goblins if Goblin Priests are gonna be a thing) if not just added for everyone.
  • Shadow Word: Befuddle. A spell that slows down casting speed. Definitely more useful in PVP than PVE. The anti-caster nature of it somewhat fits High Elf lore. The name also sounds like a Goblin spell.
  • Shadow Word: Fumble. A spell that decreases your chance to hit. 75% is pretty OP, not gonna lie, but something like 20% would be reasonable. Again, the name sounds like a Goblin spell.
  • Holy Word: Protect. A boring buff to armor class. Even at max rank, it grants a puny amount of armor, so it'd need to be buffed.
  • Holy Word: Might. A boring buff to strength. Like Holy Word: Protect, the max rank doesn't give a whole lot of armor.
  • Sleep. Very powerful, would have to be restricted to one or so types (like humanoids), and maybe have like a one or two minute cooldown.
  • Remove Curse. There are two spell books for Priests to get Remove Curse (and Remove Curse II). Steps on the toes of Mages and Druids, but a bit of cross-class functionality never hurt.
  • Holy Protection. Increases Holy resistance, which isn't really a visible stat in game. It could be reworked to absorb an amount of Holy damage, or reduce Holy damage taken.

Balake
Posts: 136

Re: High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

Post by Balake » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:25 am

A lot of these would be either too powerful (SW: Fumble would be so frustrating to fight as melee, also spammable. It will get permanent uptime in every single raid, it's dozens of times better than insect swarm) or something that already exists elsewhere (Remove curse and Shadow Word: Befuddle are blatant copies of spells other classes have. Blizz didn't go for it for good reason.)

Prayer of Protection seems to be a channeled ability which would be interesting... A channel that reduces the damage your party members take, but you can't heal during it. I don't think it would be worth it unless you are oom maybe?

Something else, there are priest-specific trinkets in the game files called RELICS.
https://classic.wowhead.com/items/quali ... s:0+3+2+19

My guess is, priests would get to choose one trinket out of 2 every 5 levels? This was probably scrapped very early into development but it could have been tied to the racial system as some of these trinkets seem pretty specific.

Mac
Posts: 67

Re: High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

Post by Mac » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:30 am

Balake wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:25 am
A lot of these would be either too powerful (SW: Fumble would be so frustrating to fight as melee, also spammable. It will get permanent uptime in every single raid, it's dozens of times better than insect swarm) or something that already exists elsewhere (Remove curse and Shadow Word: Befuddle are blatant copies of spells other classes have. Blizz didn't go for it for good reason.)
I'd imagine they'd add a cooldown to those spells I listed so you couldn't keep them up the entire time. Example: Holy Strike has no cooldown listed, but on this server it has a 10 second cooldown.

I also don't think the line "Blizz didn't go for it for good reason" is a fair argument because you could say that about anything they've re-added to the game on Turtle WoW. Khadgar's Unlocking? That's something Rogues and Blacksmiths and Engineers can already do, Blizz must have not added it in for good reason. Except that's here on Turtle WoW.

Balake
Posts: 136

Re: High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

Post by Balake » Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:58 am

Mac wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:30 am
I also don't think the line "Blizz didn't go for it for good reason" is a fair argument because you could say that about anything they've re-added to the game on Turtle WoW. Khadgar's Unlocking? That's something Rogues and Blacksmiths and Engineers can already do, Blizz must have not added it in for good reason. Except that's here on Turtle WoW.
Right, but lock picking is just an out-of-combat luxury with a bit of flavor, and rogues,mages, blacksmiths and engineers all have their own twist to it. Rogues have lock picking, but if you give mages khadgar's unlocking most people won't say its unoriginal. Those priest examples are unoriginal though, they're basically the same combat spell that another class has. Can do better than that.

Mac
Posts: 67

Re: High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

Post by Mac » Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:36 am

Balake wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:58 am
Right, but lock picking is just an out-of-combat luxury with a bit of flavor, and rogues,mages, blacksmiths and engineers all have their own twist to it. Rogues have lock picking, but if you give mages khadgar's unlocking most people won't say its unoriginal. Those priest examples are unoriginal though, they're basically the same combat spell that another class has. Can do better than that.
And Holy Strike is an in combat ability similar to some other pre-existing class abilities in some/many ways, yet was added back into the game nonetheless.

Speaking just specifically about Remove Curse, it's an ability that two classes already share (Mages and Druids). Classes sometimes share a similar ability, it's literally nothing new. In fact, a little overlap is actually a really good thing, especially when you have a small population server, because it means you now are less limited by what content you can do because you have a larger pool of people you can pull from.

Balake
Posts: 136

Re: High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

Post by Balake » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:40 am

Holy Strike is different from all the other strike abilities in that it's holy and synergies with the paladin kit really well. Heroic strike is a spammable rage dump, holy strike is a bursty taunt-ish ability. Holy Strike is in no way similar to anything else in the game. The only thing it has in common with other skills is the word "Strike" in the name, and being an "on next swing" ability.

I don't think mages and druids would agree to priests getting a curse remove. Two distinct classes with such an ability is already enough, and priests are not lacking when it comes to utility as is. Why give them yet another dispel? Homogenization is bad for variety in some cases. One of the reasons to bring a druid is for their curse removal (though not the only one), give the same thing to another class that can do it even better than them (priests can get higher mana regen values than druids) and what you're doing is not making it less limited, you're just making priests the go-to curse dispeller at the expense of druids.

Mac
Posts: 67

Re: High Elf Priest Racial Spell Idea

Post by Mac » Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:19 am

I think having three classes, instead of two, able to remove curses is beneficial because it lets you have more options if you need someone to remove curses for a piece of content, especially on a small population server where you might not be able to find a Druid or a Mage to group with at all hours. I also point to the fact that the game is full of cross-class abilities (another example of this is that Priests share the ability to resurrect with not only Paladins and Shamans, but also -- to a lesser extent -- Druids, Warlocks, and Engineers; and yet that doesn't make any of those classes the same).

You think two classes is already enough, Priests have enough utility, and giving them a similar ability will make Priests too similar to Mages and Druids.

Let's agree to disagree and move on before the thread gets entirely derailed.

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