Low-mid level relics

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Dodge
Posts: 42

Low-mid level relics

Post by Dodge » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:00 pm

Hi,

I got some suggestion regarding relic type items for low-mid lvl Shammy, Pal and Druid classes:

As we all know, this eq slot remains empty until ~50 or later and only 6 different relics for each class is available.
Relics become introduced in 1.10 patch, maybe that is the reason why there are no low lvl ones in the game - what is your opinion on adding some of these to random world-drop tables ?

I would not want to make them powerful nor to break any class balance, just an additional item that can be equipped, that maybe grants *tiny* boost to stat or some other (cosmetic?) effect, with nice flavor text or whatever?

I'm not really into that Database-editor stuff yet, but maybe someone, who is familiar with this could make some *prototypes* ? ;)

In a nutshell:
- items for ~20-40+ lvl characters
- random world-drop, BoE
- *tiny* stat boost or some other (cosmetic) effects, just to put it in empty slot
- some flavor text

What do you think?
dead_turtle_head

Balake
Posts: 80

Re: Low-mid level relics

Post by Balake » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:23 pm

version 1.10.0 patch notes mention the following:
Relics have been introduced to the game. These are class specific items for Druids, Paladins, and Shaman which can be equipped in the ranged slot. Currently there are a handful for each class which can be found scattered throughout Blackrock Depths, Blackrock Spire, Dire Maul, Scholomance, Stratholme, and The Temple of Ahn'Qiraj. We hope that you enjoy the first round of available relics and we will continue to add more in future patches.
Basically they wanted to add more but just decided not to because tbc was right around the corner (And tbc had green relics that you could get in the first zone of outland from just quests, so it's not restricted in vanilla because of design reasons)

This server is about restoring scrapped content and things that blizzard wanted to do but didn't have the time or resources and more relic variety is one such case. Some relics just to fill the empty slot would be good, they don't have to be exceptionally useful or anything.

Example:
Idol of Endurance added to Black Fathom Deeps Aku'mai boss loot table.

Totem of Agamaggan drops from Charlga Razorflank the final boss of Razorfen Kraul

Libram of Smiting drops from Bloodmage Thalnos in SM graveyard.

User avatar
Mrkrissatan
Posts: 86

Re: Low-mid level relics

Post by Mrkrissatan » Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:32 pm

This is an excellent idea, we need more items to fill the relic slot for all three hybrid classes!

User avatar
Dodge
Posts: 42

Re: Low-mid level relics

Post by Dodge » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:57 am

Thanks for your answers!

I like your examples, Balake, the drop locations are perfect for the relic types (libram in the monastery etc.), yet I think more about some world/instance random-drop BoE items (may be green), so they will be a bit more accessible.

I'm thinking about something like this - simple druid Idol (uncommon, BoE, low lvl req.) with both: positive and negative bonuses: Idol of the Woods

What do you think about such type of stuff?
dead_turtle_head

Balake
Posts: 80

Re: Low-mid level relics

Post by Balake » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:39 am

Not sure about a relic having white stats. All the ones that exist just have an equip spell effect.

Mac
Posts: 40

Re: Low-mid level relics

Post by Mac » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:07 am

Before relics, the best in slot ranged item for hybrids was Egan's Blaster. Heck, I kept mine even after they introduced relics, because bustin makes me feel good. But seriously, I remember hybrids complaining that they were losing out on a stat slot, and rightfully so. It's kind of funny that none of the relics they put into the game have base stats like Stamina on them, but honestly, I kind of prefer it that way. I like item progression being a bit more varied instead of just "get as much Stamina as you can." Balake is right about the developers shelving relics after barely introducing them for the expansion, and his quote clearly shows they would have done more relics in vanilla with time.

Anyway, I made some relics for a quest a while back (Libram of Piety, Idol of the Predator, and Totem of Command). Since then, I've been brewing up some more relics. Here's some I came up with:

Idols
Idol of the Earthmother
Idol of Bramble
Idol of Hunting

Librams
Libram of Shining Hope
Libram of Demon Lore

Totems
Totem of Flickering Flames
Totem of Crackling Thunder
Totem of Seeking

Still working on a few others in my head. For the usable relics, their cooldown should be on 30 minutes. I imagine the BOE greens could be world drops, BOE blues could be drops from random mobs in level appropriate dungeons.
Let me know what you think.

Also
Balake wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:23 pm
Idol of Endurance added to Black Fathom Deeps Aku'mai boss loot table.

Totem of Agamaggan drops from Charlga Razorflank the final boss of Razorfen Kraul

Libram of Smiting drops from Bloodmage Thalnos in SM graveyard.
These are all really solid items. I appreciate you putting one in Scarlet Monastery Graveyard. That one doesn't get run nearly as much as the others.

EDIT: Following suggestions, I changed and removed some of the relics.
Last edited by Mac on Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:22 am, edited 5 times in total.

Balake
Posts: 80

Re: Low-mid level relics

Post by Balake » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:52 am

The flash of light ones are extremely powerful. I doubt that such an effect would be balanced if not from the very last raid tier. Even 2% crit is strong compared to everything else they have. Compare it to https://classic.wowhead.com/item=23006/libram-of-light which drops from naxx. That gives 83 healing power to flash of light, which translates to 36 more healing per cast (it scales by 0.428).

The crit is comparable to that, especially since holy paladins get mana refunded when they crit.

Mac
Posts: 40

Re: Low-mid level relics

Post by Mac » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:57 am

Balake wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:52 am
The flash of light ones are extremely powerful. I doubt that such an effect would be balanced if not from the very last raid tier. Even 2% crit is strong compared to everything else they have. Compare it to https://classic.wowhead.com/item=23006/libram-of-light which drops from naxx. That gives 83 healing power to flash of light, which translates to 36 more healing per cast (it scales by 0.428).

The crit is comparable to that, especially since holy paladins get mana refunded when they crit.
Yep, it's extremely powerful, but yeah, thinking about it, it is overpowered. Maybe it'd be better to just have one version of it, the final one, with 2%. Something like this: Libram of Shining Light. Cutting down how many versions there are of it also makes it a bit more unique. Thanks for the feedback.

Balake
Posts: 80

Re: Low-mid level relics

Post by Balake » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:11 am

Mac wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:57 am
Yep, it's extremely powerful, but yeah, thinking about it, it is overpowered. Maybe it'd be better to just have one version of it, the final one, with 2%. Something like this: Libram of Shining Light. Cutting down how many versions there are of it also makes it a bit more unique. Thanks for the feedback.
Looking good! I would reduce the vendor price to maybe 3g 96s 45c though, it's less than the AQ relics but more than the dungeon blue ones.

User avatar
Dodge
Posts: 42

Re: Low-mid level relics

Post by Dodge » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:16 am

@Mac:
I like you proposals, the druid and shammy ones are perfect, librams are a bit too similar.

However, I would lower the level req for some of them (ofc along with making them weaker), as especially on this server, some people don't rush with level progression.

Summarizing, I would see these relics in similar way as trinkets but with more class-oriented effects, as you did.
On the other hand, I also don't think that additional flat (static) bonuses (white but also green like '% to hit' or '+def'), especially with some negative ("cursed") effects are a bad thing if we keep them on low values.

Also, there are some RP/lore guys here - maybe they could help and write some interesting flavor texts for them?
dead_turtle_head

User avatar
Mrkrissatan
Posts: 86

Re: Low-mid level relics

Post by Mrkrissatan » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:13 pm

i wanted to make a shaman totem that uses this spell but alas it wont work :'(

zzOLDLightning Storm

Dragunovi
Posts: 82

Re: Low-mid level relics

Post by Dragunovi » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:45 pm

It's better to try to actually get it added to the shaman class, like I did.
No profile picture because it's so limited smh wary_turtle_head

Mac
Posts: 40

Re: Low-mid level relics

Post by Mac » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:21 pm

Balake wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:11 am
Looking good! I would reduce the vendor price to maybe 3g 96s 45c though, it's less than the AQ relics but more than the dungeon blue ones.
Updated the price in the original reply.
Dodge wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:16 am
@Mac:
I like you proposals, the druid and shammy ones are perfect, librams are a bit too similar.

However, I would lower the level req for some of them (ofc along with making them weaker), as especially on this server, some people don't rush with level progression.

Summarizing, I would see these relics in similar way as trinkets but with more class-oriented effects, as you did.
On the other hand, I also don't think that additional flat (static) bonuses (white but also green like '% to hit' or '+def'), especially with some negative ("cursed") effects are a bad thing if we keep them on low values.

Also, there are some RP/lore guys here - maybe they could help and write some interesting flavor texts for them?
I agree with the librams, so I trimmed out the similar ones.

As for level requirements, the greens didn't have any (oops) so I made them require level 30. I lowered the tracking ones down from 50 to 40. Adjusted the prices, too, to be fitting for the level.

As for flat stats, I guess it depends on how they're done.
Mrkrissatan wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:13 pm
i wanted to make a shaman totem that uses this spell but alas it wont work :'(

zzOLDLightning Storm
I don't think any of those zzOLD spells work properly with the item creator. When I was doing up relics, I looked at old talents from patch 1.1, before the class talent updates (there's a 1.1 talent calculator right here if you want to see them yourself) because I knew there were some talents that altered class spells that got removed with the updates, but out of several that I tried, the only one I could get to work with the item creator was Improved Flash of Light. Others either gave me a completely different spell or nothing.
Last edited by Mac on Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Mrkrissatan
Posts: 86

Re: Low-mid level relics

Post by Mrkrissatan » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:45 pm

Dragunovi wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:45 pm
It's better to try to actually get it added to the shaman class, like I did.
That would be more preferable, SHamans only have two spells that deal nature damage, lightning shield and earth shock so not a lot for stormstrike to buff

Balake
Posts: 80

Re: Low-mid level relics

Post by Balake » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:14 pm

Mrkrissatan wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:45 pm
Dragunovi wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:45 pm
It's better to try to actually get it added to the shaman class, like I did.
That would be more preferable, SHamans only have two spells that deal nature damage, lightning shield and earth shock so not a lot for stormstrike to buff
They also have Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning.

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